Ep: 210: Coinbase's Prediction Market Move, SSENSE Bankruptcy and future of fashion ecom with Faran Krentcil, Viral Labubu app with Danger Testing's Los, SNL's new Cast, J.Crew uses AI in new ad, Meek Mill's AI tool

[00:29] Here's this week's show. [00:31] you [00:34] Oh, I'm on my creatine journey. [00:36] Yeah. We're journeying together. I have quite a few people who are like, keep me posted. I might start. I didn't realize you should. [00:43] uh, [00:44] mental [00:45] A mental game. Yeah. [00:49] It's a mental game. It's also a mental game when you first get started though, because you gain weight. [00:54] and then but i'm off i i gained [00:57] And I'm back. [00:58] So it does come off, I think. [01:00] I think, but it was, there was a few days where every single day I was gaining a pound and I was like, I'm not trying to bulk. Okay. I'm not trying to like, I'm like, well, my brain to be firing all cylinders and I want some muscle definition. And like, that's what I'm looking for here. [01:15] And it's kind of crazy how quickly you can snap into something. I might do like a creatine Zin combo. I love that for you. I love that for you. Next time I'm on this podcast, I'm just like firing all cylinders. You're just going to be like, what's up between creatine and Zin? Okay, should we get into it? Yeah, let's get into it. Boys Club, we are sitting at the intersection of Zin and creatine. [01:42] No, what is Boys Club? I can take this one. [01:45] Boys Club is one part creative studio, one part media business. We have podcasts, we have newsletters, we do a ton of events, all centered around the intersection of essentially interesting technology that's affecting real people. And, um,

[02:01] We have a lot of fun doing it. [02:02] Uh, we say that we are for smart, dumb people or dumb, smart people. I wanted that to be in my bio for I'm speaking at something. And I asked Miranda if that could be my bio and she was like, [02:12] that's not gonna work um which was the right call in that case but this is our live stream oh go ahead that's it that's it okay okay next slide okay thanks to polygon uh they sponsor this podcast we love them this live stream and podcast uh if you've touched crypto in any way chances are you've already used polygon it's the chain quietly powering a bunch of stuff that actually works [02:39] that people actually use, like Stripe's crypto payments, betting on PolyMarkets, prediction markets, and so much more. We love Polygon. Appreciate you guys. [02:48] uh sponsoring this stream and let's get into the agenda okay so we have a couple minutes before our first guest arrives we're going to talk cornbase sam altman gavin newsome uh the holy trinity and then we're going to talk about uh essence and vogue uh new f some fashion news with a guest farin and uh another guest loves on the viral lububu app and then kate will join us for some [03:18] Cardi B. Lots here today. So let's [03:22] get [03:22] started. [03:24] I just wrote the newsletter on this, which is... So it's fresh for me. But basically, if you're not up on the news, Coinbase is...

[03:35] really... [03:36] doing a pivot towards this everything exchange move. And part of that is, [03:44] um [03:46] prediction markets. They're talking about prediction markets. They're talking about real world assets. They're talking about tokenized stocks. Basically, like all the stuff that Robin Hood announced earlier this summer, they're like, we're going to do that too. And we're going to do prediction markets. And we're just like, if you're going to be trading something online, you're going to be coming to Coinbase is basically how they're positioning this. So that's kind of interesting. I have to plug in my laptop. So... [04:08] Great. I'll just chat here. I... [04:12] I have some thoughts on this and some ideas for them. Um, I know that they are looking for that for me for sure. Um, I also slid into this man's, um, DMS with the hacking cause I was hoping he would come on this podcast. It hasn't quite gotten back to me yet, but there's still time. There's always time. Um, [04:32] And... [04:34] Yeah, I'm curious about... [04:38] Like there's something about prediction markets to me that are so degenerate in their nature. And I know that they aren't like they're very legitimate, like sources of information. The technology that's required to actually have a prediction market that's efficient is... [04:58] like a serious endeavor, but they're so deeply associated with just like degenerate gambling to me. Um,

[05:06] that it's interesting to have Coinbase playing in that game. At the same time, I have so much trust. They have so much brand equity and trust that... [05:15] them stretching into all these markets makes a ton of sense because it's like, okay, who am I going to trust to make transactions? [05:22] Like it's corn base. And so why leave any sort of money on the table? If you're them. [05:29] Totally. Jesse Pollack said on a live stream that they want Coinbase to be people's primary financial app. So like you're opening your phone... [05:38] you're essentially banking through Coinbase and doing all the other stuff that you would do with your money through Coinbase too. So that's the vision. A personal finance question. Yeah. [05:48] really quick um are you [05:51] So I have a high interest savings account with Amex. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Love that for you. [05:58] I wasn't saying it as like self-congratulatory. If that's how it came up, I was just like. I have a high interest savings account with Amex. Wow. Not at all. Okay. Not at all. Totally. I'm totally joking. Yeah. Go on. I'm just like stating that. And originally when I opened it, it had 4.2% interest. [06:21] on it. Standard. Uh-huh. [06:23] Then it's gone down to 3.6, which I think a lot of high interest, high yield savings account have. [06:28] Okay. I'm curious if you hold any of your savings and that's, that's very much like savings to me. It's not, I'm never, I'm really never touching it. Um,

[06:38] if you ever if you hold that in usdc which i think it's 4.5 percent um return [06:44] Or if you... [06:46] hold it in a high interest. [06:48] Savings account. I don't have a savings account. [06:52] Okay, that's why you congratulated me. Yeah, I don't have the savings account. I put everything in. Crypto. Yeah, I have everything all in on crypto. No, I have... [07:07] I do have a lot in crypto, but I have also some in Vanguard and like index funds basically. Okay. You don't have any like liquid like rainy day fund that's not... [07:16] in an investment. [07:18] um i mean i have some cash that i keep floating in my uh checking in my checking account but i as as much as i can i'm pushing it wow wow okay index um i don't know if that's not financial advice like i don't know if that is what you should be doing or not but that's what i do uh remember when the market crashed a few uh months ago like really really bad i can't remember what happened [07:42] never been so happy. There's a tweet that was like, never been so happy or to be a bitch with $35,000 in my checking account or something. And like something about like not having any exposure was actually like really paying off. Anyway. Okay. Well, um, if there is a financial advisor on the call, [08:00] Call me. Let us know. Let us know what we should be doing. I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, I feel as though I should move some of it. All I'm trying to say is I feel as though I should move.

[08:08] more of it into it somewhere that is getting [08:12] higher interest. [08:13] the coinbase everything changed exactly that's what i'm saying um perfect transition here okay i we only have a couple minutes before we want to get into fashion news um i'm wondering if we want to do this story uh [08:27] Sam Olman? [08:28] Someone taking a job at... [08:31] Elon Musk. Okay, so I'm going to share this tab. Have you watched this or not? I actually don't know if the volume is going to work. What is an example of a decision that you've had to make [08:40] that is best for the world, but not best for winning. [08:44] Well, we haven't put a sex bot avatar in Chachubut yet. That does seem like it would get. [08:50] time spent apparently it does i'm gonna ask my next question this is really funny i hate it like i actually hate watching this clip i i i just everything the way he says sex [09:06] robot or sex bot the way her face like all all of it is just really upsetting to me I don't know if you have the same experience of it um I think there's like something that's happening with the audio that's giving it all like a fry quality that I think is triggering it can be it can be an like a auditory trigger for people maybe you um triggered yeah it's full triggered uh I yeah I [09:36] It's crazy.

[09:39] And I know I've said this to you before. I probably have said this on the podcast before. I don't know why he keeps doing media because he doesn't seem to be enjoying it. We don't enjoy watching him. [09:49] and it doesn't ever make him look better it makes him always always always look less trustworthy [09:55] less credible, more unlikable. I totally also like, it's pretty rare that I feel like, [10:02] a guy who's giving like twink energy, which Sam Altman does is unlikable. [10:07] Like, I very rarely meet a Twinkie guy and think, [10:10] I don't like you. I'm always like, I want to hang. Let's go. Let's go hang out. And Sam Altman, I'm like, I fear you. I fear you. [10:17] Yeah, totally. I don't love it. Okay. Can we quickly watch the other one? Just really, because, um, yeah, I do. I just want to say one quick thing here after. [10:26] One quick thing here is that that was obviously a very pointed shot at the head of Elon Musk. So, you know, whatever. Do without what you will. But that was the game that they're that's their kink. We have not consented to be a part of that kink. Consented at all. We are participating in that between them. On a daily on the on the daily, actually, as on Twitter. Totally. OK. We'll come back to Gavin Newsom later. [10:53] great great great uh should we pull up our first guest let's do it okay how do i make this off [10:59] hi hey how's it going hey let me hold on i'm way too close there you're good you're perfect you're beautiful um okay i'm just gonna do a quick intro then we can get into it uh farron krenzel uh columnist at business of fashion and the bbc uh writing uh has been seen in l a wall street journal harvard's bazaar w mat all the big names uh teaching at the new school

[11:29] Hey! Hey! [11:33] I'm so excited to have you in doing research for this segment. [11:38] a treasure trove of stuff that you've written about that we could spend entire podcast talking about so just some hits here um where tick tock beauty meets make america healthy again dorm water so this idea of like these college coeds um [11:53] like putting in the shower fixtures, like just an incredible trend that I'd love to talk about. An Atlantic piece that you wrote recently, just let your kids play with makeup. Just so much, so much fun stuff. It's so nice to have you on. [12:04] Thank you for having me. This is super cool. Okay, so there's a lot of that we'd love to chat about, but there is some big fashion industry news [12:15] that has hit over the past week that I do think that we should probably prioritize today. [12:19] And then I would love to get your take on. Okay. So the first one is, um, [12:25] Essence. [12:26] bankruptcy news. Now just for folks who don't have contacts, [12:30] Essence is based in Montreal, Montreal, and there's all these Canadian, there's like, [12:38] what has been filed is like pre-bankruptcy, like the equivalent of pre-bankruptcy proceedings [12:45] in the US, but the Canadian version. And from what I understand, the [12:50] the bankruptcy was filed by their lenders. So the owners [12:54] founders are very much like, we're fighting, we want to do this. It was their hand was forced by the people who

[13:00] they owe money to basically. And the positioning was like, it's effectively about the tariffs, [13:06] but that their business had been like kind of something before that. And so that's kind of the headline news. But what's your take on all of this? [13:14] My high level take is that there's too much inventory and there's not enough interest. And I say that as someone who's not in... [13:24] I've never worked at Essence. I've never even written for Essence, although I have to say I've been rooting for them for a long time because not only do they invest in new talent on the design side, but they also are pretty phenomenal about hiring wonderful writers, editors and thinkers to produce content on the homepage as if it is a high snob or as if it is like a trend forecasting company. [13:54] sense that I love that they give platforms to emerging designers and also just to like independent cool thinkers. I have a lot of friends and a lot of colleagues who have written for Essence and it rocks. I also want to say just for people that are super out of the loop and this is not your fault, we're not talking about Essence, the magazine about Black female. Correct. [14:16] - Correct, correct. Thank you for the clarification. - Thankfully, that magazine and the media company attached to it is still chugging along, and the covers lately have been really beautiful. I encourage you to check it out. We are talking about Essence, S-S-E-N-S-E, which is, as you said, the Montreal-based chaos agent, sometimes known by the independent fashion superstore.

[14:41] That's what I'm going to call it. I think there's the collision of several things here. They're blaming the tariffs. [14:49] Yeah, 25% tariffs in Canada are insane. They're incredibly harmful, especially on things like clothes. The other thing is something that, listen, I'm not [14:59] This is not a new thought. Donna Karan said this 30 years ago. She said, "The problem with American shopping is that we're teaching the customer to shop on sale." [15:09] And that was something that when she started DKNY, she was trying to combat. And in fact, [15:16] the more investment capital started confronting her business and trying to get a piece of her business, the more she realized that diffusion lines and independent lines are created, in fact, to often do that. [15:31] Essence has [15:32] These epic sales, you follow any sub stack, you know, you follow any who, what, where, or post, you follow any Marie Claire shopping guide, they'll be like, wait for the Essence sale. They have these epic sales. The great thing about these sales is that they introduce younger or more timid or just more budget conscious shoppers, American shoppers, Essence has a huge American [16:02] really elevated from the average American shopping experience. You know, Zach Posen at Gap is not designing Martine Rose. You're not going to confront it at the mall, but you go to Essence and on a good day,

[16:14] you can get a pair of those pants, you can get one of those fabulous shirts, [16:18] for a couple hundred dollars, maybe even a hundred dollars. And so it was an incredible discovery platform, but. [16:27] That's not the job of a [16:29] you know, it's an ideal, but that's not the job of a corporation. It's not discovery, right? It's sales. So people would wait for the sales. They would come about often enough and they would get highlighted so frequently, especially in the sub stack shopping culture that they would become, you know, cyclical events in their own right. The same way, look, full confession, I will load up my J.Crew. [16:53] shopping cart. I'm sure you all do this. And then you wait, you wait, like 70% off sale. And like, yes, I will take that $30 cash for your sweater. Thank you. Sorry. Sorry, Olympia. I have massive respect. And yet, yeah, look like [17:08] So people were using Essence, [17:11] the same way that people were using Gap and J. Crew. You can't really do that when there are hundreds, sometimes thousands of items that you're just waiting to discount and they have to keep them chilling on ice in a not literal ice. But in a warehouse, [17:30] So that's a big problem. [17:32] I know a lot of people who used to work there. Again, I say this as someone who did not work there, but who... [17:39] Uh, [17:40] He knows fashion. Everyone knows everyone. The other thing is Malik Morris did a beautiful job in business fashion of reporting this out. I'd really encourage you to check out his story. Yola and Zizi did it at the New York Times as well. It's not a secret that there was some...

[17:56] chaos and some strife and some anxiety going on inside the company itself. Right. They also lost two of their most [18:04] excellent ambassadors, Steph Yaka and Tom Betridge, IDE Carly Kloss, lured them away. [18:10] They're phenomenal storytellers, but what's more important or sorry, equally important is that they're storytellers who understand how to center product in their storytelling, right? Right. [18:21] Steph just did something on Jura Atlantic in ID, and I apologize, Steph, I know I pronounced that one wrong. [18:29] I wasn't a fan of the clothes on the runway, and now I'm actually like, oh, maybe I should buy this because Steph centers the experience of wearing clothes so beautifully in her stories. Right. [18:39] So you had the loss of these two people who were [18:44] telling these stories about why you could live another life in these clothes. [18:50] you have Gen Z kind of moving through their revenge shopping phase, confronting their Clarneville, you know, confronting the fact that it is no longer happening [19:02] uh, [19:03] a buyer's market, so to speak, when it comes to picking their own careers and being able to hop around like the job market has changed. And so suddenly, essence, this core customer is starting to get nervous. [19:15] right? They're not necessarily going to invest full price in that thing that they had a crush on. They might not even invest [19:22] but partly price. [19:24] You're losing that. You're losing the storytelling. You're confronted with these crazy tariffs. And it's not great. I think the fact that they're saying this is bullshit, we're fighting it, is awesome. I'm rooting for them. I really am. Maybe I'm not supposed to or not allowed to say that as a journalist. But I think any platform that

[19:44] will say here, here's our homepage, you know, user voice, here's our homepage. That outfit looks a little crazy. What if you try it? A++++. [19:53] Right? Like that's what we need. Ultimately, fashion is about [19:57] figuring out how to build the person you are going to become. [20:01] right? And it's also about feeling that you are less alone aesthetically. [20:05] Essence helped us do both of those things. And so of course, I'm going to root for it. But infrastructure wise, inventory wise, [20:15] perhaps culture wise inside the company, obviously they're going to have to change some things. And some of it's completely out of their control. [20:22] Right. We don't know how this [20:24] how this tariff thing is going to go. Honestly, like we don't even know who's going to show up at the press briefing tomorrow. That's totally I'm sorry, but like, will it be at a hotel or will it be at a landscaping? [20:40] I mean, I think when I think of essence, I think of like, um, [20:45] Like the picture that comes to mind to me is like a girl, a woman, a woman, [20:50] in like, like, [20:52] What looks like felt... [20:54] booty shorts and like leg warmers and i'm like that's so cool [21:02] There's so much self-expression in that. It has always been like... [21:06] who's buying who's buying this and why? But that's amazing. Well, and Natasha, the little catch that you just had, you know, with your language, girl, sorry, woman.

[21:19] That's the problem, right? Totally. Losing what used to be their core customer. [21:24] but they're not entirely replacing it, at least not in the numbers that we have. Right. [21:29] Yeah. We are not seeing that they're replacing it with an older customer. Right. [21:35] This is happening at a time when they were trying to add more. Oh, excuse me. They're trying to add more personal care, right? Which we know. [21:43] is the domain of Gen X. We know that women in their late 40s to late 50s are the ones who were really able and willing to put the money into that. We know that millennials are in various states of transition. Some of them are mothers, some of them are divorcees, some of them are CEOs, some of them are founders in a way that Gen Z is still catching up to. And those transitions [22:10] they just correspond with [22:12] more aesthetic changes, more shopping. So, you know, we're waiting. The leg warmer situation, like, yeah, I will say, [22:21] Incidentally, if anyone wants to invest in Danskin on this call, I was lucky enough this summer, I taught at the School of the New York Times, which is like a summer school for aspiring teen journalists. And can I tell you that some of the coolest girls I have ever seen. I bet. I'm sure. Yeah. [22:43] You know, [22:45] zero chill. And they are wearing leg warmers and they're wearing arm warmers. And I was like, like someone decided that this was happening. So that I can't speak to, you know, after the ballet call, who the heck knows? Where are we headed after that? One of the memes that I really loved that was going around and maybe you won't want to say on this call, but one of the things I really

[23:07] loved was like, [23:08] Um, [23:09] like RIP essence, it should have been. And then it was like, it should have been Kith. It should have been Emile Andor. Like people were like listing who they would have preferred it to be, which I thought was a really creative dunk, a very creative dunk that the internet created. But okay, I do wanna ask you like, [23:28] This is indicative, I think, of the landscape of online [23:33] uh, [23:35] Yeah, like online retail and sort of... [23:38] What do you think? Where do we go from here? Where, where are you noticing? Where are you shopping? Like, [23:45] I think there was some, I saw some sort of thinking around the fact that like, wow, if Essence can't [23:51] if essence isn't what the future of e-commerce is going to look like, like what is the future of e-commerce going to look like for independent [23:58] brands. So curious if you have any thoughts around that. [24:01] That's a great question. And honestly, RIP Essence, it should have been one of the multiple brands that sells $3 t-shirts that end up in a hotel and harm our emotions and children. [24:14] I have no problem answering that question. Okay. [24:19] Like... [24:20] I think that [24:22] in a really weird way. [24:25] I'm going to compare this a little bit to legacy media. [24:29] And what I mean by that is having worked both in and out of legacy media for so long, [24:34] You'll see the cycle of layoffs, and then six months later, you'll see a job posting for the exact job that they laid off.

[24:41] And I think often with... [24:44] online retail. [24:46] It's the same. [24:48] it's the same cycle where they'll say this is over and then six months later it comes right back. [24:54] Um, [24:55] I think the easy answer, perhaps even the lazy answer, [24:59] would be to say that [25:01] social commerce driven shopping is going to vastly overtake [25:06] these online repositories and that if Substack [25:11] NOSE. [25:12] what is looking far into the future. [25:15] it will start building its own type of content-driven mall. [25:19] Right? [25:21] I don't know that that's necessary. [25:23] And if it is, I think they're going to have to do a really beautiful, elegant job streamlining that so that people can find the content. [25:32] Sorry, just to be clear, just to clarify, you're like TikTok shop, TikTok shopping, basically. Well, the numbers are there. [25:39] Totally. A version of that. Yeah. I spend so much time, but I'm not sure, to be honest with you, I think video, [25:46] A video is a blessing and a curse because on the one hand, [25:49] Bye. [25:50] It is really great. And thank goodness even like Net-A-Porter added those videos where like the girl will spin around because I do want to see the weight of the fabric. I want to see, you know, how something hangs where it hits at the hip. Like I want to see all that. I think most women living in a body, we want to see that. [26:06] But at the same time, think about where you shop, right? [26:10] Um, [26:11] Like,

[26:12] think about [26:14] Sometimes you're doing it at a meeting. [26:16] sometimes you're doing it under the table, right? On a bad day. Or when your boyfriend's in the bathroom, like, sorry, but I do that. You don't always want to see the video. You definitely don't always want the sound. [26:29] And so I think static shopping still has a real place. And I think TikTok shop isn't great for that. I also think TikTok shop doesn't always convert when you're talking about an older audience. And just as Essence needs to scale if they'd like to grow out of this bankruptcy chapter to a bigger age range, I think TikTok shop, they'll say it themselves. [26:59] that is gonna come up. So I think weirdly, maybe not weirdly, Substack has a really interesting opportunity in terms of static shopping. I think Shop Bazaar, right? Elle's commerce pages, Vogue's commerce pages, like those are gonna keep getting [27:15] bigger and bigger in terms of how people shop because they want that expert. The strategist is doing a great job of that, obviously. And that is becoming a bigger and bigger part of how we shop. But here's the other thing we've got going on, right? And this is where it gets really cool. We've got the cafe for gods. [27:32] of the world, right? We've got these teeny little stores, and they're starting to have an outside influence. We're even having it in vintage with Emma Rogue, right? [27:42] And so

[27:43] I think that as everyone's newsfeed has become hyper curated for better or worse, we can start to think about how our shopping feeds [27:52] are going to become hyper curated for better or worse. And that can [27:56] give very small [27:58] independent, [28:00] sellers, a real channel, a real mainline, a pixie stick mainline, right? Directly into the dopamine hit of what you want at that exact moment. And then you supplement that with the Zach pose and Gabble Navy, right? You supplement that with the 70% Olympia J crew. Sorry, Olympia. And don't forget, we also have Uniclo. [28:22] Right. We also have Claire Waite Keller, who's doing pretty remarkable stuff with a $25 t-shirt. And I think that for so long in fashion, we've talked about high, low. I'm not sure we want to keep talking about it like that, but we do want to talk about big, small. [28:38] Mm-hmm. [28:39] you know, we're seeing less and less of this middle ground. [28:42] And we're going to see these hyper curated feeds where you feel like someone is talking to you, at you, with you. [28:48] And then you've got, hey, [28:51] All American girls need a pair of jeans. Check it out. [28:53] Right. And the same way we're seeing this hollowing out of media, the same way we're seeing this hollowing out of social class, the same way we're seeing this hollowing out of the middle everywhere. I think it's a good indication that right now. [29:05] we're going to see that with shopping. That does not mean there's no opportunity there. In fact, as soon as things scatter, [29:11] Right. It's like the Dead Sea parting. You have a clear path. So whoever masters that is going to make a lot of money and then they should call me. And then I can. Thank you so much. I love I love your insight. I love that take. Let's hope that essence survives. But if it doesn't.

[29:28] I'll see you at the bankruptcy sale. I was going to say, if it doesn't, I will see you at that sale. Thank you so, so much. I hope y'all are having a wonderful rest of your day. Take care. [29:39] Thank you. [29:40] So fun, man. So fun. We didn't get to talk about Anna Wintour, which I was very excited to get her take on. One thing I'll have to say about Anna Wintour's successor. What's her name? Chloe? Chloe something? Chloe. Yeah. [29:53] They did her dirty with that wrap dress. I just will put. [29:58] I'm not familiar with the photo that they put of her. Uh, [30:04] Really? [30:04] really bizarre. I'm sure Kate has thoughts when she comes on later, but, um, okay. Excited for our next guest. I believe he's here. [30:13] Um, [30:15] I don't know if he's going to go camera on or camera off, but should we bring him on stage? [30:21] Okay, we're going to... [30:23] Cameron what's up hi this looks way better than I could have even imagined I was wondering how it would frame up looking at like the former boys club videos but this feels good as you see I'm I'm transitioning to a [30:42] a real labubu. Now. Full blown. [30:44] full blown. It's happening. It's happening before our eyes. Um, you look great. You look [30:49] Beautiful. Okay. Do you want to give a little intro? Yeah. So Los, we have a little bio here. I would be curious how you feel about it. An app artist, you drop apps like songs with your project called Danger Testing. So we've had...

[31:07] some viral hits recently that we're going to chat about. The dating app was one where you can only swipe and match with you. And then most recently your Labubu app called [31:17] performative [31:18] Welcome to the show. [31:20] Yay! That was great. Thank you. I'm so happy. [31:24] I'm so glad. Okay. You've had a crazy few weeks. You... [31:30] from what I can tell on the internet, you drop a new app every Thursday. Um, and then as well as like a bunch of content around those apps. Um, so I think there's like a lot that we can talk about there, but I'd love to start with basically like, tell us about, um, your most recent viral sensation, uh, this Lububu app that went from zero to 10 million downloads in five days. Um, obviously you're a big Lububu fan based on the transition, but would love to hear about just the [32:00] weeks and what it's been like and sort of how it all came together. [32:04] Yeah, I mean, well, thank you guys for such a sick introduction. No, big fans of the pod. Yeah, it's been pretty insane. I'm like... [32:13] You know, I actually never knew a lot about Lububus. Like, I just like spend like a lot of my time, like hanging around with like people that call me "Unk", you know? So I mean, they're all like college grads, like whatever. And, you know, I saw that they were like obsessed with these things. And, you know, I, my story is literally, I don't have a job. [32:35] Right. So it's like I was like on severance for a while and I got my last severance check and I was like, OK, I can get a job now.

[32:43] Or I could keep on dropping goofy apps. So naturally I was going to keep on dropping goofy apps. [32:48] And then three days after that, I was in the shower, [32:52] And I thought it was just like I had the idea. I was like, OK, what if I just like put this on a chain, you know, and I just like made like a little [33:00] the BooBoo app that just bounced around and used the phone's gyroscope and it actually seemed real. So I don't have to, it's not going to sell out on me. [33:10] And some parts of the internet say that I was doing it to be eco-friendly, which [33:15] I embrace that comment. [33:18] the intended uh result but i i went to like this uh like social like co-working space called versi where i'm at every day and there's just like a ton of like really creative like uh [33:31] that content creating, you know, founders there. And naturally, I was just like wearing it like on my black cargo pants. I honestly wasn't even fully aware. [33:41] of the you know performative trend either and yeah so it was right here you know the second i walked into the space there was like [33:49] six people immediately taking photos of like the labubu on me. [33:54] So I was like, oh, okay, that's like a, that's the sign for, for me. Like at data testing, we, we track, we have no analytics. It's just all. [34:03] Is anyone screenshotting this? Is anyone taking a picture of it? Like that's like, does it like resonate? Like what's like a memorable view? What's a memorable IRL view?

[34:14] And yeah, my friend Anant, he was like, yo, I have this... [34:18] video idea for it. I can't explain it. Let's just do it [34:21] you know, five minutes, we ran past one random person that was walking by. I was like, does this need a caption? You know, like, [34:28] Nah, post it. And then like, yeah, fugitively, we're like, [34:32] The amount of views is like insane now. [34:35] I'm not sure. [34:35] So is it what happens now? Or is it just for the act of doing it? Or are you like what what's next in the evolution of performative, if anything, or maybe it's just ephemeral? And that is what it is. [34:49] So yeah, I would say that's a great question. That's the question, right? I would say it's a mix of both. Like the fact that like it is like this viral, like we are going to like continue to drop like some more like like performative apps, like sort of like what you will see with like a show like South Park, right? [35:08] Like, I would say most of our references are, like, actually not, like, tech companies. It's, like, South Park or, like, SNL, right? And it's, like, okay, like, they have, like, this character that, like, really worked out, you know, and they'll do it for, like, another two weeks or three weeks. So we're going to have, like, some more performative drops. We just dropped iMacha last week. There's a lot of people trying to, like, go on, like, old store, the old app store, like, in early, like... [35:35] '08 or like '11 and like seeing like, okay, I wonder if they're going to do something like this next. [35:41] So we're going to do some of those, but yeah, I mean, the idea is it's all ephemerality

[35:46] I don't ever try to go viral, to be honest. I just go with... [35:50] my heart, like what makes me laugh. Sometimes it will be things that resonate directly with the culture and other times it'll be like, [35:58] I just got ghosted. The ghosted app is going to drop now. [36:04] Yeah, I've heard you talk about there's so many directions that we could take this conversation, but I've heard you talk about [36:11] that you like, [36:14] see yourself as sort of like a film director but with code i've heard you talk about sort of software as content a lot and i think i'd really love to understand like what that means to you and also in that there's something about [36:28] the clip in which [36:30] software is meeting culture and how closely sort of shipping has become, which has not been the [36:39] really what software has been previously. So I'd love for you to sort of talk about that as like, content as what that means to you like software's content and also like, what's required and sort of the speed and iteration of software as that, [36:52] like, [36:53] form factor. [36:55] Yeah, for sure. I mean, even I mean, if you're asking this question, you see the exact same vision that I do right now. Right. Where it's like, you know, at Danger Testing, like, yeah, like we drop apps like songs like this, this the boo boo thing was like not like a planned thing. It was like Monday to Wednesday, we get in the studio first version submitted to the app store within a few hours, not months, you know, and it's like a whole new thing instead of like, you know, everything that you see.

[37:21] with everything else, right? Like film was incredibly expensive. [37:25] Like that was specifically for like science experiments. There was no art there. Fashion was incredibly expensive. You wore whatever rags were around. Right. And all of these things became like incredibly cheap over time and then allowed the people that were artists to, you know, use it as a form of expression. Right. [37:55] and anyone. [37:56] can make an app and it's only going to be in the next year. I mean, my co-founder, he is, I don't know if he believes in coding anymore, you know? So it's all going to be like this thing where it's like you get to like, [38:10] it's going to come down to like the same questions you have for like like you making a tick tock like [38:15] Are you going to be able to like distribute it, market it in a funny way? And sometimes it's like the app itself, like is the content. [38:25] Like a week before this app went viral, we did like a collaboration with Dia. We had like 80K views. [38:31] I had no idea what to do. I was like, should I just be [38:33] making more videos about this video. [38:36] or [38:38] I was like, I don't know, I sort of want to make an app. [38:40] even though it's not content, it's not going to grow itself. [38:45] But weirdly, it did grow itself because it was that viral, just the same way like a viral video [38:50] word.

[38:51] So, yeah, I think it's going to be like we're going to see [38:56] In a weird way, like people, old heads, I'm on to some people, but they're still old heads. [39:01] in my life. We wish them well. But they ask me, they're like, I don't know, what are the new jobs? I feel like if Mark and I can win with this, and I'm very sure that we will, we are actually going to create one of the blueprints for the new career, right? It's like this new hybrid between rapper and founder or painter and engineer. And it's like you get to express your worldview. [39:31] And the cool thing about software that's different from a song or from film is instead of just resonating from hearing the song of Taylor Swift talking about her ex, oh, my ex did the same thing to me, watching Larry David, and it's like, oh, that happened to me in a supermarket. [39:45] With software, we get to make you the main character. So this is the world's biggest stage right now. My bet is I can turn... [39:53] 8 million people into an actor in the next two years. [39:57] Man, I love this vision so much. I think it's so inspiring. It's so inspiring to hear it, but also just to see it expressed. Like, I feel like there's a lot of discourse around like democratizing access and like you hear that like get. [40:10] It's like, [40:11] thrown around like very casually by people in tech who have a lot of money, frankly. And I just love to see it actually being expressed through you right now, like in the real world with like very clear and concrete examples of like you expressing yourself through these means. And so I just like, I love it. I think it's so cool. And I'm, I could not be rooting for you,

[40:31] more um i am curious about like some of the things that [40:36] Like this, you've had some hits, but like there's obviously been [40:40] you've taken many shots on goal, right? Like you talk about your increasing your surface area for luck. What have been some things that haven't hit and like, [40:47] Why do you think they haven't? [40:51] Oh, okay. Hold on. Wow. I'm like so thrilled with this question. So I think I can't exactly count, but maybe like between like 15 and like, [41:00] 20 apps that we've dropped this year. [41:03] um and i would say yeah most of them people do not know about there's this one that i was a big fan of it's called uh ai pope [41:15] And it's like when the pope passed, we were like, OK, let's make this Pope. And it's like you try to go to the pope to confess your sins. But it's instead of like. [41:25] uh uh instead of actually inputting your own sin you do almost like a roulette like pull the wheel and see what sin you get given and like you try to work your way out of it things for like voting for kanye like investing in crypto a bunch of not listening to boys club that was one of them and [41:51] never banged, you know, but in a weird way, it's like all of them [41:55] like build on top of each other like every single app that we have that mark and i cook on like [42:00] It feels like, you know, I don't know how to say that word. Amalgamation. Amalgamation. Amalgamation. Okay. Amalgamation of like all the ones that

[42:12] came before and all the learnings, you know, and that's why I think like what you guys do is also like so [42:18] incredibly cool because it's like I have no idea how [42:22] like, [42:23] someone's able to repeat and iterate on [42:27] like a video format like this for like this long and this consistently like yeah bullish that's sweet oh that's really nice um well it was so fun to have you on i have one final question for you um you previously worked at eternal [42:40] um, [42:41] and i was told to ask you how many demerits you received while you were working there [42:48] Endless. It almost resulted in my termination from the company. But- Well, look at you now. Look at you now. No, I'm here because of Reggie's support, honestly. This is a lot. There's a lot of- [43:02] you know, danger testing stuff that was happening late [43:05] at eternal as well that you know reggie fully supported so i'm just hyped for all this to glow up but now now it's like the world gives me demerits barstool sports is making fun of the way i wear socks so it was just preparation i saw that the cargo shorts uh comment was like cargo shorts and loafers go so hard [43:23] I thought it was a supportive comment. Well, there it is. I love it. I love it. Well, this was so fun. We're so happy to have you on. We love what you're doing. Dangertesting.com, right? That's the best place to track where things are at, apps you guys are dropping. Thanks so much. Can't wait to see where you guys are cooking next.

[43:49] Thank you guys so much. Big fan. [43:51] Bye. Take care. [43:52] Oh my gosh. So fun. So fun. Love what he's up to, what they're up to. Um, okay. We have some quick hits that we're going to come into. Um, and they are going to be done by me. I'm going to, oh, sure. I'm going to show the screen, but Kate's going to come. Oh, I was like, oh, wow. A live edit. Um, no, sorry. I was, I've been, uh, [44:19] I have been [44:21] preoccupied with the with the uh slide share here so let me just get it ready okay kate um [44:26] Do you want to come up? Hi. [44:28] Hi. Hello. Hi. Can I just say just a quick shout out for Kate? Kate always has the best energy. [44:36] And she will just roll with the punches and... [44:40] We love to see that. So Kate. [44:42] shout out shout out thank you i received that i received that take it um okay what are we starting with here all right um i'm gonna do like a in short [44:54] for each of these. We keep it moving. But if you got interjections, feel free to interrupt. [45:00] Okay. [45:00] um so snl season 51 got a new cast all right so we have um tommy jeremy ben cam veronica uh veronica though who we had on the pod a little while first first club podcast guest to be cast as an s on snl i will say big milestone huge news big moment for us specifically no uh congrats how

[45:32] - Couldn't happen to a more deserving person. She's so wonderful. - So talented, so wonderful. [45:39] But I specifically want to speak to the fact that a lot of the new cast members are [45:46] more digital culture focused. So like Veronica stands out as a prime example of this, like viral social media creator directly recruited to SNL. And it's like, [46:01] a lot of articles are pointing to the fact that it's modern casting pipeline, anchored in digital culture. And if you look at each cast member, they all have like, [46:11] a background in whether it's online sketch comedy with a web series or, um, podcasting, that sort of thing. So specifically Veronica is like the biggest on, um, [46:24] TikTok [46:25] as in her like primary skill set. But she's obviously done acting, she's done standup. So just really interesting to think about how we're trying to get some Gen Z viewers up in here. [46:39] Up in here. I, what's really interesting to me. I thought about this actually a lot when Kim Kardashian hosted SNL and everybody was like freaking out about her being on and hosting SNL. [46:52] the that episode and in her monologue she basically like roasted everyone and was like I think it's like [47:00] three or three million people watch SNL live.

[47:04] night of or whatever. And she was just like, that's like rookie numbers. Like I posted a video on Instagram and like literally gets like 27 million views in like a few hours. And I think it's, [47:16] It totally... [47:18] like change my perspective on it. And I think it's similar to Veronica. Like, [47:21] probably a lot of the videos that she's posted has the same amount of viewership as what an SNL skit gets any given night, which is wild that we're living in that, in that age. But she is so funny. You should go check out all of her stuff. I'm so, she's also so nice. And so, I don't know. It was just cool to see. [47:39] someone who I have liked from afar and have talked to for years. [47:43] 20 minutes but um when it was just like i was like this is cool this is really cool [47:48] Yeah, it definitely highlights the pipeline we're all seeing on TikTok where, you know, if you want to get into acting, start doing sketches. And then this is just another stop on this. Go on Boys Club. Go on Boys Club. Then you'll get into SNL and then you'll get more acting roles. There you go. [48:08] Okay, what's next here? [48:10] uh okay j crew ai i you put a lot of screenshots in this well it's the people want to see if i'm just saying like wow this photo can you tell that it's ai people like no i can't i can't see it so for the viewers that are watching you're lucky if you're listening to the pod then turn on that video but or you could just go to j crew's social media and see their latest campaign the summary is

[48:40] released a nostalgic looking campaign promoting a Vans collab. [48:44] But [48:47] And they initially did not... [48:49] uh, [48:51] say that this was AI. Yeah, it was not disclosed that they were AI generated images. Blackbird spy plane substack, it's like covers men's fashion or fashion at whole, broke the news that the visuals weren't real photos at all, but AI generated and filled with glitches. Only after the public backlash did J. Crew add credits to an AI photographer. [49:15] Thank you. [49:16] And so, yeah, people were not happy about this. They're like, why do this? So we have... [49:23] Blackbird spy planes, [49:25] uh substack i subscribed to the email go subscribe it's great uh pointed out like said that he pulled on friends brought on a friends like dad who's a nautical expert um and pointed out that you know the handlebars look weird on the bike and um in the next one you'll see um [49:46] like the shoe the paint spot isn't consistent throughout and his his foot while he's sitting down looks like the main one is the backwards the main one is the foot like I think what I was struck by with this story is like yeah there's a lot of like small glitches that you could point out a lot [50:06] you could chalk up to like bad post. Like they did some weird stuff in post and it got wonky. But the one that's truly incriminating that I'm like, how did someone on the creative team not catch this? Like his foot is...

[50:18] sort of like folded under him, but his whole foot is facing the wrong direction. Like it's like [50:24] fully twisted backwards. It's a little hard to see in this photo, but that's the one that I was like, Ooh, they should have caught that. This is maybe a stupid question, but these are AI models, right? [50:35] it's all ai yeah it's all ai all the people too okay now what's cost saving is that presumably like presumably um [50:44] The... [50:46] Blackbird's Flyplane reached out to their PR team and other people. And so far, at least the last I read, he's like, I haven't had a response yet. But I love this one where you zoom in on the camera and he goes, what kind of camera is this? Because it just looks ridiculous. It's like a double layered, triple layered camera. Yeah. [51:06] really really there was a lot of backlash a big part of the story happening um [51:12] People like, [51:13] If you want to do this, okay, other brands have, but just disclose that it's AI. The fact that they kind of tried to hide it, it was weird, especially since the agency that made it, the AI photographer works for an agency. The agency posted on LinkedIn. [51:31] that they had done these photos and they not LinkedIn, not LinkedIn, they disclose that it was AI can't believe LinkedIn got the story first, right? Oh, my gosh. Oh, man. Wow. Interesting. Interesting stuff. I, I, I gotta say if I'm Vans, I'm pissed.

[51:48] Oh, totally. [51:50] I'm like, you guys, I didn't need to catch that stray. No. Totally. Poor man. Okay. Also, it's a really great campaign, just for the record. Well, also, man's approved the AI, so there's no way they didn't. [52:03] Okay, let's move on to my... [52:06] uh meek mill um big announcement uh this tweet was what started it all and it was a tweet from meek mill uh on august 31st saying working on an a ai tool that can change the world lol eight million views on that a million views a million views [52:29] Yeah. That's crazy. [52:31] Crazy because also outlets like Hot 97 reported that he was highlighting a collaboration with a genius tech guy, supposedly, insists that it isn't just hype. However, he did call it out with an LOL at the end. [53:01] app, sir. And then, you know, saying... [53:06] things like it they don't like him because of association with diddy or that a lot of insults in that range okay and then on the flip side there's the tech community [53:16] Hello, that is us. Hello. Hello. That are like curious.

[53:23] and are interested and then they make graphics like this. [53:27] this is i thought this was real it definitely got me i was like oh interesting um meek mill american hip-hop artist raises 15 million from a16z [53:38] And then it's just like, nah, someone's troll. And it looks like a TechCrunch article. So it's quite compelling as a spoof. I think a few things that come up for me. [53:48] I saw a lot of retweets around this, like, is this a bubble? And I had to, or like, it's a bubble or like, um, what's that movie? Uh, the big short and like quote tweeting it with that. And I had to kind of check myself because the week prior there were the two girls, the two only fans. [54:08] women on the podcast talking about what crypto investments they're making and there was a lot of the same sort of retweeting and quote tweeting of like um we're in a bubble and a lot of screenshots from the big short when steve corral is at a strip club and the girl is saying that she owns like four different properties all basically mortgaged out and he's like it's about to burst and [54:33] With the two OnlyFans. [54:35] creators, I had this feeling of like, [54:40] This really pisses me off. Like these women can't talk about they make so much money. They make more money than most anybody who is quote tweeting them. Why shouldn't they be able to talk about where they're investing that money? [54:51] And... [54:52] we would be so lucky for them to be

[54:56] shilling our coins and pumping our bags that was my feeling around it i was just like this is annoying to me and then this week when this was happening with meek mill [55:06] I was sort of like, [55:07] who better to be speaking into the way that [55:12] music is going to look into the future than actual music artists and why shouldn't they be able to raise money for those products so i don't know i think like [55:21] Obviously the LOL, the meth, this is not so serious. 2.01am. [55:28] 2 at 1 a.m. on AAI. It's not a great tweet, but I just think that we should have an openness to who is creating things and who are founders and who's investing in things. [55:44] Crypto contracts or. Thank you. Okay. [55:49] That's, that's it. We can maybe leave Cardi for another day. Another time. Just shout out Cardi. Um, that's it. We love you. She's incredible. She's incredible. She's once in a, once in a generation for sure. [56:04] Okay. Thanks for joining Kate. Thanks for your, uh, hot takes and, uh, we'll see you guys later. [56:11] Okay, that's our show this week. Join us live on Twitter every Wednesday at noon. Or here, I guess.