Ep: 209: Burning Man Weather Report, Taylor Swift Engagement Market, Guest: Jake Nevins on the U.S. Open, Guest: Bryan Pellegrino of LayerZero on the Stargate Acquisition, Guest: Johann Kerbrat of Robinhood on their crypto moves

[00:03] Boys Club is a New York-based media and creative studio. This is Boys Club Live, a weekly chat on all things tech, crypto, and pop culture news. [00:11] Voice Club Live is hosted by myself, Dina Burke, and Natasha Hoskins. Hi. Co-founders, marketers, and entrepreneurs that have built our careers in new tech and startups. [00:20] We're also proudly the demonstrators in the room, and we love to learn in public. [00:24] Boys Club Live is reported live and best consumed as a video podcast. Here's this week's show. [00:34] So we've been in back-to-back meetings and like I've also been managing um, [00:39] some editorial questions and crises as well. We've gotten a lot of, yeah, we've been having to navigate some ethics questions this morning and that's, we're navigating them, but it's just been a lot of inbound texts and lots of different people like calling and then meetings also. And [01:02] All were like... [01:04] going through this process. And then all of a sudden, [01:08] my [01:09] My husband comes in the room. He never comes in. Never. Never. I was like, what's going on? I know. I was like, I hope I hope the kids are OK. Like and whatever. And we're on a call. And so I got there and he shows me an email from AT&T. [01:23] that's like, congratulations on buying a new SIM card. [01:26] So immediately I'm like, okay, I'm being sim swapped. It's happening now. It's the mic.

[01:35] And [01:37] I must admit, [01:40] I did not know what the first action to take was. Mm-hmm. [01:44] I need to know. I think we all need to know, okay, you have some sort of sign that you're being sim-swapped. What's the first step that you take? I know what mine is. I don't know. I don't know because I was like, call AT&T right now and... [01:57] Tell them to what? Turn off my phone. Like what's the, you do not. I'm calling the most powerful person that I know. I shall not name them and saying I'm getting some swapped. Help me. [02:06] And then I know... [02:08] they'll tell they'll connect me to the right folks we might as well just know now though you know what i mean uh-huh like there's [02:18] No, they'll have, like, the executive at AT&T. Like, you need someone in a direct line. You're not getting, like, customer support. Like, I need... [02:27] Oh, I see. So you're trying to escalate it within AT&T. Anyway, all I have to say, I'm not getting SIM swaps. Okay, yeah, yeah. I'm not getting SIM swaps. So just so everyone knows, I would not be on this live stream if I was getting SIM swapped right now. But what you did, you like came back in the room. [02:42] and sat down and I was like, something's [02:44] Also, I was in the middle of sort of pitching, and I was like, just keep talking. And then you came and sat back down, and I was like, [02:51] And then you just typed into your computer in all caps SIM swap. And I was like, we've got to get off this call. We've got to get off this call. We're both like sitting there just kind of sweating. I'm like, oh my God. I'm like trembling. I'm like, oh my God. Anyway, I'm not getting some swapped. It was just because I bought my kid an Apple watch last week. And then Apple sent us an or AT&T sent us a notification.

[03:14] But if anyone knows, drop it in the comments. What's you're getting SIM swapped. What's the first action you take? [03:20] Mm. [03:21] Call AT&T. [03:23] question mark question mark go on to coinbase and change your email address question mark create a new email address this should move everything off your legend [03:34] Yeah. As soon as you're in panic, that's the worst time to be moving things around. [03:39] So 100%. Yeah. I think I just, I think I just give up. [03:44] I think I just give up. [03:45] Oh, my God. I know. You're still stressed, and I feel stressed. I know. You're an absorber. You're an energy absorber, and you are absorbing my stressful energy. I'm absorbing it into my bones, into my bones. Anyway, it's going to be a great live stream. Really excited about today's show. Welcome to Boys Club Live. We are... [04:06] really pumped about today's show we have a lot of fun stuff that we're going to cover as ever boys club is a media company we uh cover the [04:15] juicy intersection of technology and culture. Sometimes the stories are a little bit more culture. Sometimes the stories are a little bit more technology. It's a beautiful mix. And that's why you come to this live stream. And that's what you can expect from us. We are supported by Polygon. We love Polygon so much. If you've touched crypto in any way, chances are you've already used Polygon. It's the chain quietly powering a bunch of the stuff that actually works. [04:38] that people actually use, like Stripe's crypto payments, betting on PolyMarkets prediction markets, and a bunch more. We're going to talk about prediction markets in a sec, but thank you so much to Polygon.

[04:47] for supporting this live stream. [04:50] we love you guys okay quick note on the agenda today we are just gonna do all the hits uh burning man weather report taylor swift engagement and then we have three guests back to back uh we're gonna talk um with our friend jake nevins about uh the us open and novak jokovic good job thank you we are gonna have the uh [05:12] uh ceo of layer zero on to talk about their stargate acquisition and what's next for them and then uh the general manager of robin hood crypto johan kerbat is going to talk about what they're up to so a real you know we have range [05:26] We, we, [05:27] uh, [05:28] are really going to a lot of different corners of the internet today. Anything you want to add to that, Natasha? [05:34] No, I'm excited. There's a lot to talk about. I think it's our... [05:40] obligation and duty to report on what's happening at burning man primarily just to gloat that i've never been i never will go i don't want to be like superior about it but i do oh too late i do feel [05:57] too late um yes i i i want to be supportive of people's self-expression i really do i want to be supportive of people finding themselves in the variety of ways that are available to them totally i [06:09] The problem with Burning Man [06:12] is that similar to other things where people find themselves, then it's all people will talk about. And

[06:18] I've just... [06:19] can't. [06:20] It's CrossFit. [06:22] it's veganism. It's burning marathons. It's burning. It's that's the nightmare blunt rotation. Totally. I think if you can go to burning man, I think the worst, first of all, easy target. So such a easy, so private jets coming into burning man, the traffic now this dust storm, like a lot, a lot of fun to be had at their expense. They're a very easy target. There's a lot of money there. It's so much of a, its own thing. Um, [06:50] But... [06:51] uh yeah what i'll say is the worst part [06:56] a burning of a burning man type person is a performative burning man type person yes and i think as long as you're if you're going to burning man and you're not being performative about it great [07:05] Good for you. [07:06] Honestly, speaks more to your character. Totally. Like, that's... How cool? Really cool move. Extremely cool move. But if you're being performative about it... [07:15] Get out of here. [07:16] Thumbs down. Two thumbs down. So anyway, there's a huge dust storm. And the videos are insane. It looks like such a bad time. That's also the other part of it. And then I'm like, these people are in these RVs. There was a dust storm. And then there was a flood. And it's like, you're in an RV to begin with. And you're dealing with. [07:36] inclement weather right I just like is your goggles and your your like fluffy boots and your bikini top it's like crazy it just feels like maybe God doesn't want you there you know like it's [07:48] Like maybe he's saying, don't do this, you know, don't go do a bunch of,

[07:52] drugs and have an orgy in the in the middle of whatever this is a desert yeah but maybe maybe maybe it's great so burning man orgy dome hit hard the orgy dome collapsed uh and the one thing i'll say about the orgy dome it's been going since 2003 i think legacy product it is a legacy product at burning man uh and yes it has been going since 2003 every year um sex positive consensual space [08:22] line. What I will say about the Orchard Dome, which I learned, is that it's air conditioned. [08:26] Oh, okay. They're really trying to get you in there. They're like... [08:31] But like, you know, they're bringing some infrastructure in. Yeah. Totally. [08:35] You know how I feel about it. [08:37] AC. [08:39] This could maybe convince me to go to the orgy town. I'm like, I'm actually not here for the sex at all. I'm just here for the air conditioning. Next story here, and then we're going to bring Jacob. Big news yesterday. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey were engaged. If you're living on a rock and we are breaking the news to you. Wow. What an honor and a treat. [09:09] Thank you. [09:09] Honestly, it's... [09:10] I was expecting it to be higher. You know how I feel about prediction markets. We've written a whole newsletter about the error of their ways around culture markets. Yes. As evidenced by right here. Totally. But this is...

[09:23] people, [09:24] There's someone who came in yesterday and who bought this right here. Good for you. Good for them. A lot of money. Yeah. Happy for them. And then the second thing. It's Travis Kelsey. [09:34] Literally. The second thing I'll say here is that there's been a lot of discourse like, oh, this is going to boost fertility rates and baby boom coming and like, [09:43] Absolutely not. It's going to do that. No way. No chance it's going to do that. And that's a bad take. And you guys need to log off. You guys need to go to Burning Man. Like literally touch grass. Seriously. Crazy take. It's a crazy take. Yeah. Please. [10:01] Thank you. [10:02] I was just going to say, you know, the age old saying, if you have nothing nice to say, [10:07] Don't say we're gonna we're gonna bring our first guest up on stage here. I'll do I'll do a little intro here for Jake as he's coming up on the stage. [10:19] Jake. [10:21] I don't know if Jake's here yet. He's, he was, he's, oh, there he is. It is. Sorry. [10:26] Hey Jake, how are you? [10:29] I am good. Thanks for having me on. [10:32] So excited to have you. Quick intro. Jake Nevins is a writer and editor at Interview Magazine. You write about literature, sports, and pop culture. You've written for New York Times, New York Magazine, New York Review of Books. We're so excited to have you and chat about tennis. I am too. I'm excited to be here. And I liked hearing the Burning Man weather report. There's not an orgy dome at the U.S. Open, but I feel like that could be implemented.

[11:02] There's always time. There's always time. Revenue stream. I see a revenue stream now. I'm still putting money into the event, so you never know what happens next. [11:10] Not to put you on the spot, but have you ever been to Burning Man? [11:13] I have not. I have to say I have such a phobia of music festivals. The entire experience is like petrifying to me. I don't like being like, like I'll go to concerts, but music festivals just... [11:27] I don't know, the crowd is too much for me. And also just like navigating to different stages. I'm just like, tell me where I need to be and I'm there. [11:34] But like, I don't need to go on a whole adventure. I respect that. I really, really respect that. [11:40] No, never. Not once. Not for me. I'm not. [11:44] um someone who camps i'm not like out here trying to not take a shower for several days like i'm quite against that type of lifestyle i love the outdoors but i want to like go on a beautiful hike [11:57] Come back home. On her terms. On your terms. [11:59] Yes. And as evidenced by this storm, it's impossible to have the outdoors on your terms in that type of environment. So that's not going to be for me, but I'm happy for those who... [12:12] wish to participate. OK, I'm good for them. Really excited to talk to you about the US Open. And you just wrote a piece with Novak, an interview with him. [12:25] He's gearing up for his 25th grand slam at the US Open happening now. And your piece was definitely about him and sort of him being a,

[12:35] christened as the goat and how he feels about that. It was also about his collaboration with Lacoste and sort of an iconic change they made to their crocodile. I want to give you some space to talk about the piece and get your thoughts, but... [12:49] For listeners who haven't read it, maybe give us a one-on-one on what you guys talked about. [12:54] Yeah, so, you know, Novak Djokovic is now 38, nearly 39 years old, and has been a mainstay at the top of tennis for about 20 years. Obviously, you know, Yannick Sinner and Carlos Sarkraz are the big dogs right now, but, you know, Djokovic is still playing at a high level. And the interesting thing about Djokovic is, you know, he holds the record for [13:18] the most Grand Slams by any man, but he kind of started his career as [13:24] the sort of like edgy and not completely likable third wheel to the era of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal and [13:34] I always got the sense that he was like craving the kind of adoration and affection and fandom that the two of them had on a global scale. And, you know, it's just interesting because they're, you know, he's sort of, [13:49] this Serbian athlete raised in like the crucible of war and [13:55] And it just always appeared that he was trying a little bit too hard to get fans on board, and so he kind of gained a reputation as the bad guy in that trio. Both because he kind of disrupted their rivalry, came on a few years later, and also because of various antics. People might be aware of that.

[14:14] he was deported from Australia during the 2021 Australian Open for refusing to [14:22] get the vaccination. You know, he's a bit of an odd guy, kind of, you know, has, you could call him a health guru, although I'm not sure guru is exactly the right word. He has his idiosyncrasies. [14:37] But, you know, I think a lot of people, I think the tune has changed a bit on Novak where people, you know, see him way less now as an interloper and more as like a certified legend of the game. So it's just interesting to get a chance to talk to him as he kind of is making one last push to get another slam, which would make him... [14:56] you know, the sole holder of the most man or woman of all time. [15:00] Um, [15:01] And at the same time, it's like reckoning with mortality and father time and his body's ability to, you know, put itself through the toil necessary to win a slam. You know, he basically only plays the slams now, people might be aware. [15:16] that there's lots of other tennis tournaments over the course of the year. He's kind of skipping most of those just so he can peak at the right time. [15:23] And. [15:24] Anyway, yeah, Lacoste kind of changed their crocodile, turned it into a goat, so I caught up with him at the, you know, flagship store last week. Um, and he's, you know, just like a really thoughtful interview subject. Um, with kind of in like a contemplative mood. A lot of the, a lot of the players come to you guys open and they're just like bogged down in all these media responsibilities, so sometimes you feel like you're kind of gonna get someone on, um,

[15:50] on autopilot, but I found him to be really thoughtful and [15:56] and engage them, yeah. [15:57] Yeah, it's really funny. I grew up in like a big [16:00] tennis family and [16:03] Yeah, just like they love watching it and playing it. And so, but they've always hated him. It's always just been like, he's the bad boy. He has bad manners. Like, and that, it's funny because growing up, that felt true when I would watch him. And as he's gotten older, I feel like that's not accurate. But I don't know that he's been able to like... [16:21] remove that stain in comparison to the other two who are just like, [16:26] so polite, so kind, have such a like presence of being [16:31] like serious competitors, but also just like really good guys. And I feel like he got branded early on and like has had a very hard time shaking that as like, yeah, [16:41] as like a, I don't know, being more than that. And when you look at what he's done, it's incredible. And also the player that he is today and like, he's serious and he's intense and, you know, [16:50] Yeah, kind of funny in certain ways, but like also a very good sport and [16:54] It's funny how even over time that takes a long time to shake a different perspective of how [17:00] the world sees you. [17:02] Yeah, 100%. And it's also funny to see like how the way that that affects him like he clearly wants [17:08] to be beloved in that way. And the US Open has been an interesting site where that [17:13] emerges because there are just times of like, [17:16] You know, the U.S. Open crowd is pretty fickle. For the most part, they'll root for the Americans. But, like, if a player is up, they're just going to start rooting for the player who's down. And it's not more and more tennis. And Novak is just, like, constantly gesturing to the crowd. He's like, you know, he wants them to rally behind him. He's like, love me. Yeah, 100%. He's a complete picnic.

[17:38] And I think finally, after all these years, he's getting a little bit of that. [17:47] But you know, it's funny, he was trying to be kind of humble about [17:52] I imagine it's kind of weird. You have all this respect for your forebears in the game, which I believe he does. And then this company, your clothing sponsor, is like, we're calling you the GOAT, and you need to put on this polo. [18:10] But he was a good sport about it, and hit all his marks in terms of paying respect to all the other great tennis players of his time. But I could sense that he was like, yeah, I'm the fucking GOAT. [18:22] Yeah. Okay. Can we talk about the U S open a little bit? I know I'm skipping ahead here in our questions, but I'm seeing this piece here, Natasha, that you put into our notes about the honey deuce. [18:35] Uh, [18:36] $23. What is it? It's a vodka based. It's a perfect beverage just for the record. So everybody knows it's [18:44] A gray goose. [18:46] cocktail with melon and it's like has a life of its own at the us open like it's just an iconic beverage um and 15 so it was 15 a decade ago [19:00] And today, yes, yes. And in my mind, it's still $15, but it's not. It's $23 a glass. And you get like a glass with it. And I don't know, it's like so commemorative cup commemorative cup. Exactly. But before we get into how much does a ticket to the US Open? Like, I want to just get a sense of the money. What's it? What's the ticket cost?

[19:21] Not to go to a finals, just like to go to an early game. Well, it's exponentially changed over the last few years. So tennis has had like a major boom. And this is something I was excited to get your take on, Jake. But it used to be like, there it is. There she is in all her glory. It's a really lovely looking cat, I like that said. It's perfect. It's really perfect. So like what has happened is because of the popularity, you have the resale value issue where you're now on – [19:50] SeatGeek or Ticketmaster or whatever. Like you're not, the original ticket I think would be like, for an early stage, maybe like $75. But you have the issue of like the Taylor Swift tickets where it's impossible to get a ticket at that price because they sell out really quickly. And so, [20:05] I was looking to go the other night and for like two tickets for like a random ass early stage, it was like three 50 or something like it. It's gotten really expensive. And then like if you're in the lower seats at the lower, um, how much do you want to spend? [20:19] Yeah, as long as a piece of string like it's crazy. Like I saw something going for like literally forty five thousand dollars for the finals and like they're probably not going to get that on resale. But like it's it's crazy. So there's been an exponential. [20:32] growth in it. But curious what, like Jake, your perspective on why that has happened. Why has tennis, tennis has blown up so much in the U S and affected sort of the business of it. Um, [20:43] I have some theories, but I'm curious what you think. [20:45] Yeah, I'm curious what you think too. I mean, it is interesting and I'll tell you something that I've noticed. I'm a regular, you guys are in New York, right?

[20:55] I am, yeah. [20:55] Okay, cool. So there's six tennis courts in Fort Greene Park, and I'm a regular there. And, you know, it's a real rat race to sign up for a court, basically, like the Parks and Rec. [21:09] attendant comes out with the sign-up sheet every morning at like 6:30, but if you want, you know, a quarter to 6 p.m. after work, [21:17] you have to be queued up at 5:30 in the morning, and people do this, myself included. And it used to be that you could get there like at 6:30 when the shoot's coming out and like get the court of your choice. [21:29] Um, [21:30] Now it's like, [21:31] there's like 70 people there by 6:00 AM. Like all lined up. - Oh my gosh. - Several of them on benches, and then once the benches end, everyone else just has to stand and wait patiently for this lovely lady to come out with the sign-up fee. All of it is to say, [21:45] That's like my boots on the ground dispatch from the tennis room. [21:51] I can't necessarily, like... [21:54] Part of me wonders if this is some kind of response to the pickleball boom. I'm an active [22:01] pickleball hater just because [22:04] I hate the way that you know, what it's done. Yeah. Like, [22:09] bulldozing public basketball courts and whatever to build pickleball courts and it's so loud and it's not a sport you can quote me on that [22:16] in any case. And so I wonder if there's been like a Newton's Law thing, like an opposite reaction, where people are like, let's embrace the sport from which pickleball came. Um,

[22:28] I don't know, your film people on Twitter are going to attribute this to challenges. I kind of doubt that. In any case, I just think that, um, [22:38] I don't know, you had like the Serena and Venus and Roger and Rafa era and maybe there's some sense of nostalgia now that they're gone. And I don't know, tennis, it's like, [22:49] It's chic and athletic and I don't know, kind of maybe the perfect sport for the, you know, young cosmopolitan millennial. If they are lucky enough to get a quarter. They're willing to be out there at 5 30 AM. One last question here before we, one thing I just want to say about honeydews. I just have to tell this, this price or how much they sold last year. They sold $30,000. [23:15] 556,000 honeydews and generated $12.8 million. [23:22] That's insane. And also I'm sure Great Goose is sponsoring is [23:26] cutting some sort of checks would be on the glass as well. I feel as though I was responsible for at least one million dollars worth of those. [23:34] They definitely got a couple hundred from me. I was getting with me the other night. I was getting with me the other night, my first day at the Open, and [23:41] and they had it on a cat. [23:44] at least one part of the drink on tap, which I hadn't seen before, because usually they're making it themselves. And the guy was just like, when I asked for one, [23:52] he just like kind of sighed and he was like [23:55] - Yep, another one. [23:57] He said some statistic to me about like the number that are being made per minute, but in any case, it's a phenomenon.

[24:04] Wow. Okay, last question. Dina, pull up your photos. This is a surprise for you. But curious what you have, curious your thoughts on the new buzz cut here from Carlos Alcaraz. [24:18] Hold on, let me get it up. [24:21] What do you think? - Yeah, there it is. Okay, so my hot take is that it's a little too short. [24:26] um whoa okay that's not i mean i think most people would agree here's the other thing though um so there's like a bit of a uh bit on tennis twitter because carlos zacharias has been known to get really really bad haircuts and he goes to this guy that tennis twitter has called victor barber and every time he gets another one of these awful haircuts victor barber like instagram stories and he's like my boy can't do this um [24:53] And this is not the work of Victor Barber, this is the work of Karlo Zakharaz's brother, as he said in his press conference the other night. So I think the idea might be, let's go super short, [25:03] And then when he's like inevitably in the finals next Sunday, it'll... Oh, nice. Nice strategic. That's really strategic. Also, there's so much more we can talk about. Like the rise of tennis stars all of a sudden getting super jacked. Like that's a crazy thing. But we'll have to have you back on. Maybe after we see who wins the U.S. Open. Thanks so much, Jake. Thanks for having me. It's so fun. Bye. Bye, Jake. See you later. So fun. So fun. Okay, let's bring her next. I think the haircut looks great. I do too. [25:33] Okay, next guest here. Oh, Brian. Hi.

[25:38] Hello. [25:39] How are you doing? [25:40] I'm great. How are you? [25:42] Good. We're doing a big context switch. Yeah. Are you a tennis? Do you do you watch play? [25:50] My wife played a ton when she was younger, so we watched a ton. I've been in the Australian Open, which is just like an amazing month. Oh, nice, nice. Yeah, it's great. [26:00] Okay, so Brian, quick CEO of Layer Zero, do you want to just do a quick intro of yourself? And also, [26:07] If you could answer the question, what is layer zero? [26:10] I think that would be helpful context for folks who are listening too. [26:13] - Sure, intro of myself as in right now, or as in like history. [26:18] whatever just all right i'll give a very quick version i you know i grew up in the states tiny town 900 people was like nerd with a computer uh dropped out of college there was a computer science student to play poker professionally um played for eight years the highest stakes you could possibly play in the world was one of the one of the best heads up no limit players in the world um did like 80 countries who just traveled the world during that time uh and then in 2011 [26:48] So I was in the US at the time. So you wake up, everything's locked, everything's shut down. And so all of us in poker, very fortunate turn of events in life, found Bitcoin in 2011, which is very early to find Bitcoin. The poker to Bitcoin pipeline. Yeah, definitely. All of us. It was just jammed down our throats because that was first product market fit, the only way to move money around.

[27:10] After that, started and sold three different companies, sold machine learning models to a bunch of pro baseball teams, did academic research with Noam Brown, who's the creator at OpenAI of the 01 and 03 models, got cited by DeepMind, which was really cool as a college dropout, put 100% of my net worth into Bitcoin in 2016 and started Layer Zero in 2020. So I think that's all the relevant stuff that gets us here. [27:40] Polish. [27:43] And then what is layer zero? [27:46] Layer Zero really is just, you have all these chains now. They all just... [27:51] live on their own, there is no way for them to talk to each other. So primarily what that looks like these days is assets moving. And so if you look at on top of Layer Zero today, there's hundreds of billions of dollars of assets that are built on top of us. Hundreds of billions of dollars are moving across the rails. And these are things like the largest stable coin in the world, the largest sort of wrapped Bitcoin synthetic in the world, the largest yield bearing, so Athena there, [28:21] of stables as you think about money moving about 86% of all money that moves across chains and crypto moves over layer zero today. [28:30] Hmm. [28:30] Wow. [28:33] It's so... [28:34] it's layer zero is one of those things that like you see you see or i see everywhere but um

[28:40] have never fully understood [28:43] what your role is in the stack or in the ecosystem. So [28:47] I think it's useful for that. And also there's some messaging on your site that's about omni-chain or interoperability. That's kind of the place that you guys are sitting. Is that right? [28:56] Yeah, exactly right. So we built it as a [29:00] Back then, there was just really everybody was just wrapped assets only. And it was really just one way. So if you went Ethereum to [29:08] BNB chain, [29:10] And then you wanted to go to Avalanche. You have to go back out to Ethereum and then go like nothing was connected. It wasn't a mesh, right? So the Omnichain for us was this. When you have a bunch of chains, very annoying. You have to keep going back in these weird circuitous routes. And so Omnichain was just everything's a full mesh, everything connected. And then our operability just means even though it's mostly money right now, really it can be anything. It's like a packet on the internet. You can move any byte. So it's used for applications themselves, gaming, NFTs. [29:40] really anything, money just happens to be the biggest product market fit. [29:43] okay um so you guys have uh had a big weekend big week um there was a big event that took over the headlines uh this past weekend i uh yeah i think that timeline is this weekend um [29:58] You brought Stargate back to layer zero, won the [30:03] bid or pass the proposal to bring Stargate back to Layer Zero. Tell us a little bit about what went down. [30:09] Yeah, so Stargate, just for background,

[30:13] Built Layer Zero in 2020, launched it March of 2021. As we were building it, we realized, hey, if we build this thing that is, you know, [30:22] like a generic packet and tell everybody like it's here, nobody's going to be able to build anything. They're all going to have to reinvent a bunch of this stuff. And the most obvious thing is moving money, right? If you're a DEX, if it's SushiSwap and Uniswap are the two big competing DEXs at the time, you want to like, [30:37] bridge and swap you want to be able to like i have an asset here and i want an asset there but you need some settlement rails there and we realized that if we didn't do it [30:46] Uniswap and SushiSwap will each build their own and not use the others. Aave and Compound competing at the time will each build their own and not use each other's and will create ultra fragmentation. So we said, all right, we have to build this liquidity abstraction layer on top, and that will make it so much easier to build on layers. You're really just add a bunch of utility. And so we built both of them. We launched both of them. [31:07] Our original thesis was, listen, the base layer, layer zero, has to be credibly neutral, has to be agnostic. It can't really care about this single application. So Stargate got spun out and basically rolled into a DAO model. So run by its own team, done everything. We wrote all of the code. We wrote all of the contracts, all of the like... [31:25] ongoing innovation of new features was all done by layer zero side, but running and operationally was done by the separate team for the Stargate Foundation. A couple of years go by, Stargate has become the largest bridge in the world. So it's done about $80 billion across it. But [31:41] it has really struggled in a ton of ways. Like we as LayerZero have flourished in terms of adoption, everything growing, and we have all of this new stuff

[31:50] that's coming out and this might be swaps and this might be all of these things around stables that we're doing and around just the movement of money that aren't sure bridging and we realized we were starting to gift a lot of these to stargate because we want stargate to grow we want it to start to do these things but it's not necessarily uh in like our best interest to continue to gift them so we can either do things that are like mildly competitive like if we do cross-chain swaps and we run it as layer zero everyone goes to stargate for bridging and layer zero for swaps [32:20] that's getting a bit weird and you're gonna have like more and more fractured interests in terms of where things lie and where development cycles go and we want to just like [32:31] We're very, very focused on just [32:34] winning and being intense. I think we're kind of a, [32:38] a bit of an outlier in that we're about 140 people now. It's already pretty big in terms of like most crypto companies, but we're 100% in person. So we have like 110 people in Vancouver, 25 people in New York where we're like, [32:50] really just this amazing team. And so we want to be able to run fast. We want to be able to execute at a super fast speed. We realized we're doing things that are divergent. And so there was a point that came, we looked at about three months ago, so we couldn't do it. [33:03] point came we said okay economically we think it can make sense here we're going to put up a proposal laid out [33:09] There's been a bunch of Dow shenanigans in the past, like teams who vote on their own proposals to give themselves money, teams who secretly do, you know, there's like all this weird backdoor stuff.

[33:21] And so we just try to be super transparent in terms of like, [33:24] We put up the proposal in the forums. We said directly in it. [33:27] Nobody from labs foundation from anywhere is going to vote on this proposal. This will be 100% up to the Dow. It was 100% up to the people in the Dow already there voting. So he said like, we're going to leave it up to you guys. Here's why we think it's right. If this doesn't happen, we're probably going to end up competing in some ways, which like isn't great for anybody. And we like want. [33:48] to bring you guys along for the ride. Like we want to be able to just have aligned interest and do this. So we put up the proposal. [33:54] Um, [33:56] The other thing is, I think there's usually a lot, a lot, a lot of [34:00] backroom dealing, even in, you know, just going around and trying to get the biggest stakeholder and say, please vote for us. Like, here's this incentive. Here's that. And so I talked to every stakeholder reached out. I didn't proactively reach out to a single stakeholder. I answered any questions. I told them. [34:15] You guys should just vote in what's in your best economic interest. I'm not pushing you to vote in either way. So you guys just make it a super... [34:21] legitimate process from that side, it ended up becoming this crazy thing. Like in the beginning, I thought it was pretty straightforward. Naturally, they were like, hey, we want more money. A lot of this VESDG stakers were. And so we came back with a second slight modification that said, hey, you guys are getting revenue now from the protocol. We're going to continue to give you revenue for the next six months. We think we have the ability to grow this thing to kind of doing more revenue than it was doing. So that six months period will probably be great for you. But then it got really

[34:51] Other people were saying, hey, [34:53] "stop the process and we'll put in bids." All of this was happening. [34:57] which got really noisy, tons of coverage, tons of media outlets on all of this. But the thing is, all of these were like, we might put in an offer. Here is a conditional offer if we can figure out anything. It was like all of these [35:10] weird what ifs. And we had been very clear from the beginning. I said right from the beginning, I said, we're going to make this offer. [35:15] One time. [35:16] You guys decide what you want to do. [35:18] If it doesn't go through, that's fine. I'll be unhappy, but I'll live with it. And we'll just like go on our way and do our thing. And so everybody kind of knew like this offer is going to go through. We have to either need to decide... [35:28] to accept this one or wait and maybe get a different offer later. [35:34] And so even despite all the noise, I think the news presented this as like a very highly contentious, hotly contested thing. [35:41] But if you look at the vote, it was the most voted on thing in Stargate history. About 15,000 plus individual addresses came out and voted, and 95% of the [35:52] addresses themselves voted in the positive. So like 95% of the absolute number of people, and also 95% of the stake weight itself. So, you know, because some people could have a lot more and some people got a lot less. So it was both in pure numbers and in stake weight, 95%. It passed on Saturday. We were very happy. The Stargate team, I think, [36:14] is excited now we're gonna build this thing together. They actually all have flown in. So a bunch of them are here now and we're just like, okay, like how do we now take this thing and just,

[36:25] build something amazing? How do we turn it into this one piece of the stack and just fully verticalize the whole stack now? For us, we get this amazing [36:35] project within the ecosystem now, which is direct touch point to the consumer. We can build all of the stuff that we're building and launch it under a single point. And all of that drives now, not in multiple directions. It just drives to one thing. 100%, we said, like, we are not going to take the revenue, all of the revenue goes directly to buying back zero, all of the revenue stays within the layer zero ecosystem. And so it is just a singular touch point. [36:58] for the ecosystem and where [37:01] very excited and optimistic about what we're able to do with that. So I think we're going to be able to run very, very quickly. I think we're going to ship a lot of stuff that will surprise people kind of in the near future. So we're super excited. [37:14] Great. So definitely have been following this story along the timeline and congratulations. One question, one thing that I've seen as criticism and that people have asked some questions about is the speed in which the vote went through, how quickly the proposal came together, all of that sort of stuff. And so could you speak to that criticism as to why things move so quickly and [37:37] maybe why you think people are upset about that. [37:39] Yeah, it's actually funny that that's the interpretation, because the DAO is like a very, it's been three years now, very well established process, which is seven days in the forum and only three days to vote. And we actually optionally went out of our way. We said this is a huge vote for the DAO. [37:53] absolutely should like have time for people to synthesize the information and make the best decision. And so we on our end, like DAO rules would just say seven days in forum, three days for vote, before we said we're going to make it a full seven days for votes. We actually like

[38:08] intentionally, willingly extended the time frame to be almost twice as long as was originally, well, more than twice as long on the snapshot period as was recommended or mandated by Dow rules. We have the full seven days in the forum and a full seven days of voting rather than the seven or three. So I think [38:25] like, [38:26] I know that has been being said on Twitter, but I think anybody who is saying that actually is like pretty disconnected from reality. And you can see every other vote that's ever happened. You can look at the forums that have been very, very well established on how the Dow rules work. And you can look at the conversations where we said, hey, actually, a couple of the large, there was another in adjusting the VESDG, a couple of the large stakeholders said, hey, I think you should make this longer. I don't think three days is enough. And we said, I think you're absolutely right. [38:56] that and think it was longer than was needed process. And it was something we did because we think it's a really big decision for the DAO. [39:03] Yeah, totally. I also think on the other side of that, it's like they're, um, [39:07] It is incredible to witness the speed and efficiency at which an on-chain acquisition can happen. Like setting aside all the doubt, drama and all of that, like, [39:17] if we're in an industry to cut out middlemen, like being able to execute an acquisition [39:22] in that way. I don't know, like fast, cool. This is one of my, one of the parts I thought was, I think maybe, maybe he was good intention, but there was like an MNA advisor who came into the forum and was tweeting and was like, [39:38] Hey, hey.

[39:39] you guys should use an M&A advisor. I happen to be if you need any help. I know who you can call. But it's like, OK, great. But no, I think it really when I was on a show yesterday and it was the same kind of thing. It's just like, oh, wow, like, you know, the bankers and everybody else involved. Like, guess what? None of them are needed. Right. The structure is really meant to be hyper efficient. And yeah, I mean, that's the that's the beauty of the beauty of crypto. [40:09] We love it. Brian, thank you so much for your time and coming on on what I know is a very busy week for you guys over there. So appreciate you. [40:18] Of course. [40:19] Thank you for having me. Thanks so much. [40:20] Bye. Take care. [40:23] all right man i'm still i'm still reeling from that tennis to crypto um switcheroo [40:32] okay let's make our next guest up here up [40:38] Oh, there we go. Hi. Here we are. Hi. How are you? How are you? How are you doing? Johan, how are you doing? Welcome. [40:46] Good, good. How have you been? We're so good. You have a beautiful background for people who are just listening. It looks like you're in a gorgeous wooded area there. So this is our headquarters in Menlo Park and I have the chance to [41:02] I have this room with like a mini forest behind me. So I like to take calls from there. Nice. So Robinhood, general manager of crypto, Johan Kerber,

[41:14] Do you want to give us just a little context on you, a little introduction so that folks have context? [41:21] yeah happy to um so so like you said i'm i'm the gm for crypto at robin hood um i've been at robin hood for a bit more than four years uh initially joined as the cto for the crypto group and then moved to that position and and really the goal for us is to make uh crypto accessible [41:40] and actually usable, not just reserved for engineers that are super technical, which I think was the issue with crypto for a long time. And before Rabino, I was at a bunch of startups, including Airbnb, and I had my own startup back in the days in France. [41:59] Nice. Great. I've also heard that you have been like a DGEN for a while and in the trenches with folks. So it's always nice to see someone who's really ingrained in crypto and the industry at such an established company like Robinhood and leading the charge. [42:29] and ETFs for EU customers, staking and plans for a Robinhood L2. Just to sort of vibe check, how are the, what's the feeling at Robinhood? How are people, what's the reception been? What's the energy like in the house? [42:43] Yeah, I mean, I think the reception that we've seen in the public has been really amazing.

[42:49] I think for a few things, you know, like you mentioned, Robinhood is a pretty big established company in the brokerage space. And so people kind of had the tendency to just think about crypto as a [43:02] the secondary thing that we were doing on the side and so i think this event really showed that we we care about crypto that we think [43:09] blockchain technology is going to be the platform of tomorrow for any financial system. And so I think the energy has been super high from that event. But, you know, at this point for us, the main focus is to make sure that we ship what we announce or we continue to iterate on what we announce, keep the momentum going. [43:30] not slowing down like this kind of things. But, you know, at the end of the day, we are super happy about the announcements. Some of the products are already live, like staking in the US, and we've seen a lot of demand on it. And so, you know, we're really excited about the fact that the team have been working so hard. And thanks to them, we've been able to ship all these products. [43:49] Did I get it right that you lived in Cannes? [43:53] That's right. Speaking of ECC, just bringing it full circle, is that where and when you got into crypto? [44:00] Yeah, I mean, just next to it, Nice, which is a smaller town, a bigger town than Cannes. And the ECC was a bit of a coincidence. Usually it's in Paris. I think one time they did it in Brussels. But the fact that it was in Cannes this year was pretty funny for me. You know, I could see where I went into the high school, but also this conference.

[44:30] in on crypto. So yeah, the Ethan Solstaking, tokenized stocks, perpetuals, future trading. Tell us more about the suite and like what you feel like it unlocks for your customers or your users. Like what's the vision for what it gets your your [44:48] your customers. [44:50] Yeah, I mean, in the EU, really, the goal for us was to keep working towards building [44:56] true financial super app where you know you have one platform where people can access any asset not just the classic um stock or crypto but also like everything that we want to expand to and so one of the giveaway that we we gave during the during the um the announcement was also a private stock giveaway and so it shows you that we we want to break a bit all of the wall that exists currently around financial systems and uh are kind of you know [45:25] protecting the the super rich but letting a lot of people on the side that are not able to contribute to that economy um and so we think that with this super app we we can get there [45:36] And really, at the end of the day, we also think that the technology is better. It's going to be faster, [45:42] 24/7, transparent, and all of these things are really going to improve the shape of the economy. [45:50] and again, include more people. But we also launched more complicated products, like for example, Perpetuals in the EU. And we think that, you know, there's a lot of demands for this type of products now. It's a bit more reserved to the advanced trader type of customer, but we think it's super exciting for them to be able to use it in a regulated place using a regulated exchange as well.

[46:15] And the products that are in the EU right now is the vision that they will eventually come to the US over time. [46:23] Is that how you guys are thinking about it right now? [46:25] Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, there is a lot of things that we've been building and we've not been super shy about the fact that we cannot build them in the US. You know, for example, staking, we launched it more than a year ago in Europe. And so we had to wait before being able to launch it in the US. And it's not live yet in all the states. So that's a kind of... [46:46] problem that we see with the current regulation and the current regulatory space for the US. But, you know, things have been changing. There was a Genius Act recently. There's this market structure bill of clarity coming up. And so we think we'll be able to keep adding new products on the crypto side in the US. And for us also, like one of our [47:06] mission is to expand internationally. So, you know, there is a work in the US and the EU, but we also want to keep expanding and we think crypto is a great way for us to move quickly there. [47:16] Yeah. Tell us about your sort of on chain strategy. So, you know, we're we [47:22] believe that and [47:23] a more increasingly on-chain economy as a more transparent economy and then hopefully a more [47:28] fair economy. What parts of the Robin Hood stack are you guys hoping to bring on chain? And yeah, what's sort of the vision for or the sort of value system around that? [47:38] Yeah, you know, right now we started with a stock token. So in the future, we'll be able to trade any kind of stock tokens anywhere, basically.

[47:49] 24/7, which I think is really exciting. [47:53] But. [47:54] basically any financial instrument, we want to make sure that [47:58] will be available on chain. You know, you can also start imagining a world where you can also own a share of your favorite sports team, your real estate or, you know, any other thing. We're starting to see a lot of that popping up here and there, like real estate development projects that are raising money through that. [48:28] to invest in a private real estate projects where you only get a fraction of the project and we think that we can actually get a lot of that through tokenization and the fact that within the technology you already have fractionalization system in place and so it's easier to build and on top of that you know [48:48] Basically, the goal for us is to become a global marketplace, a global liquid marketplace where people can buy crypto stocks, but any other asset that they are looking for. [48:59] Nice. That's so exciting. What do you feel like [49:03] It's an incredible vision and something that I think [49:07] even if you're not in crypto, you can see the benefits of. But what do you think some of the biggest hurdles are to this vision coming [49:14] into reality. [49:16] You know, I think regulation just need to change, but there is also a culture shift that needs to slowly happen. And I think for this culture shift to happen, you also need the technology to improve.

[49:31] If you think about crypto in the past 10 years, you know, like you mentioned, we've been in the trenches for a while. And I think we kind of did that to ourselves. Like, you know, you wanted to onboard somebody, you had to ask them to create a wallet, to write down a ton of words, and then to do a... [49:51] you know, 20 transaction authorization on your wallet before you could do anything on chain. And because of that, like a lot of people were like, OK, this is not for me. [50:01] or a lot of people actually lost money because they made a mistake or something like that. [50:06] What we've been focusing on is really trying to make the [50:09] the UI and UX as simple as when you're using your phone and you're sending a [50:14] an SMS to somebody like you don't really know what's going on in the background [50:17] you just want the message to go through and and that's kind of what we're trying to do so if you look at what we launched for stock token in the eu the ui and ux really look like the same as the us we just added a token pill to tell you like hey this is actually using crypto technology behind it um and we think that's how you [50:37] will actually get to this place where you can have this entire economy being on chain in the future. [50:44] Okay, stablecoins, so how right now? What's Robinhood's [50:50] What's Robinson's stable point in play? And are you guys thinking about like yield products or like where's your head at with that? [50:56] Yeah, I mean, we already have, you know, a yield product on Robynode. So if you're a Gold customer, you already get 4% plus right now on cash on the platform.

[51:09] For us, the stablecoin product has been mostly used for people that are trying to go load their wallet or transfer money to a different platform. But that was before. Since then, we joined the Global Dollar Network, which is a consortium of big companies and crypto exchanges. And we launched the USDG stablecoin. [51:39] stable where [51:40] all the revenue is going to the main issuer. And in our case, the revenue is distributed based on the usage of the stable and how people interact with it and all these kind of things. And so we think that it's going to be a bit more inclusive for [51:57] all these startups, all these dApps on Web3 that are using stablecoins, they will also be able to get a share of the revenue. And so we think that will increase the usage as well. [52:11] Cool. That's awesome. Okay. So as a US citizen, someone in New York, what should I expect to see from Robinhood next? Like what, what does the roadmap look like for a user like myself? I also have to say, so I'm a big Robinhood user now. I have been for the past probably two years, but there was a time where I wasn't using Robinhood. I wasn't like doing it as much and for a few years. And then I, [52:37] was like, oh, I... [52:38] I'm going to buy some

[52:40] ETH was down, ETH was down bad. I was like, I'm gonna use Robin Hood, I'm gonna buy some ETH. And I opened up my wallet and I had [52:46] just a few grand of crypto that had been sitting in there. - Congratulations. - And I was like, holy shit. I was like, I was so stoked. And then I started using Robinhood all the time. And I think honestly, like something happened to my brain where I was like, I opened this app and I have money. Like it was just like, so. - That's awesome. - Anyways, so I have a really, a lot of affinity for what you're working on. But yeah, what's next? What should I expect as a user? [53:13] Yeah, I mean, just on that, it's always funny. I also did the same thing, you know, when I was younger, I opened a ton of accounts and [53:21] Back in the days, I will send like Bitcoins or a fraction of Bitcoins here and there because it was worth nothing. And back in, I think it was in 2017, I was like, okay, maybe I need to go back to check all my accounts and make sure that I tried to send back everything. [53:37] And I still lost some money on Mongok, so, you know. It's like turning over the digital couch cushions. Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay, let's open up these wallets I haven't looked at in a while. [53:51] We have a ton of things cooking in the US. We are doing so much. One thing that I'm super excited about is Cortex, which is kind of for, [54:01] own little AI powered digest for tokens. And basically, a gold customer will be able to read this digest and read the news.

[54:12] The reason why I'm so excited about it is crypto is so volatile, like, you know, [54:16] You wake up in the morning, ETH is like plus 5%, and you're like, what happened? And until now, you had to read the news, you had to read Twitter and all these things. And so now just directly on the page of Ethereum on Robynode, you will be able to see this digest. And I think it's really just a way for you to stay updated without having to do so much work constantly. And yeah, other than that, we are doing a lot of work also on more advanced products. [54:46] launch mobile advanced charts that are really cool, and you will be able to do tech analysis directly from [54:54] the charts and we also have our product Robin and Legend, which is kind of this new desktop interface where, you know, we're adding a lot more to it. So I think, you know, there is a lot to come and we're excited to keep working there. [55:10] Nice. Awesome. [55:11] Well, Johan, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate you coming on the show and sharing with us what you guys are up to. [55:19] Thanks so much. - Of course, stay there. [55:21] See you soon. All right. Bye. Take care. [55:23] Thank you. [55:25] What a nice guy. Nice guy. Really nice guy. They're doing such cool stuff. And it's genuinely so exciting that [55:33] like Robinhood, this, it, it, like a very established, like I trust it so much is doing such cool, innovative things with crypto. It's like genuinely very, very exciting. Um, so you'd love to see it.

[55:46] Love to see it. Love to see it. Um, okay. [55:50] Just a few minutes left here in our show. Um, I wanted to, uh, [55:55] to [55:56] Talk. [55:57] Just threw some quick hits. [55:59] Let's bring Kate up. Should actually hear some quick hits here. [56:03] Where's our girl? [56:04] There she is. [56:06] Hi. [56:08] You're on mute. [56:09] I'm locked in on other people not myself so great to see you thank you so much you got a you got us like front and center in our most stressful moments this uh morning so really you've you've dealt with it all [56:27] Hey, you know, if I can bring a little joy to some chaos, [56:31] always always I feel like Kate you um I see you see me you see me I feel seen but you see me in some of my most stressful moments and I'm always like I'm so sorry I'm so stressed and you're like it's totally fine like you were totally fine and I'm like man I love that about Kate she can just really take just take it roll with it totally take it can totally very high high tolerance it's it's [57:01] Thank you. [57:02] We have. [57:03] We got like one. [57:04] one quick hit and it's about the um viral tallow restaurant in philadelphia okay so did you see any of these tweets natasha i saw tallow con i saw a tallow conversation on the timeline but i i gotta tell you i didn't dig in i i kind of just swiped i have a feeling we'll be adding this subject to our uh internal dbh

[57:29] Okay, okay, great. - All the things, you know. [57:33] So it starts with a 28 year old man, Abe, and he opened a tallow fried chicken joint in southwest Philly. OK. He did the seven months ago inside a ShopRite grocery store. Oh, my God. This is what Dina found interesting about it. [57:49] Of course, we're Buc-ee's fans. [57:52] But he was finding a little success, so he took it to Twitter to, like, you know, air out his grievances, struggles, you know, part call for support, part, like, candid reflection. [58:03] The post said, for the last seven months, I've been doing all that I can. And basically, he was saying, like, we are open seven, eight hours a day, and I'm making, like, $50 to $125. And that's it. [58:16] This post garnered, like... [58:18] 14 million views. [58:20] and had thousands of comments people like offering donations advice on how to improve the shop [58:27] but then that was quickly short-lived and replaced with like hate and people accusing him because he uses tallow and organic cane sugar of being like a maha influencer and um then because he was taking donations in crypto as well they were calling him a bitcoin scammer oh and then they were going [58:50] shop right and like he was [58:54] really upset that they went after not only his establishment, but ShopRite. So then he took that tweet down and replaced it with like, I'm so sorry, I'll pay back all the money. I'm not a scammer, but if you want your money, DM me.

[59:07] I'll pay back your Bitcoin too. Okay. [59:10] I feel as though this man has every right to accept the donations that people are sending to him. What is that? Okay, here's the tweet that I saw go viral. The tweet that I saw go viral was like, man's upset because... [59:25] his restaurant that closes at 7 p.m that's located inside of a shop right that um and there was one other thing like isn't getting isn't successful like also near like a raising canes and right yeah okay so it's like i'm not sure how we leave a break yeah give me a break give me a [59:47] he's all i feel like it's um not necessarily an ego thing but his wife and father own a restaurant in his hometown and they're like keep going and so he's probably like i i want to do my own shop he's got something to prove this tallow thing is very important to him because he like [1:00:02] says he lost 70 pounds when he made the switch from oil to tallow. So he's all about tallow is beef, beef, tallow, beef. I also think that this is part of why I went viral. It's like a clean version to fry food. And also you can use it for skin. Is it part of like the seed oil free movement? [1:00:21] Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Adjacent. Right. Um, but not really in, in, in, in not adjacent. Well, yeah, it's an alternative to seed oil. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Uh, $30,000 in debt. [1:00:34] but he's gonna oh no we've got a pivot my friend let's pivot we're we're it's actually just a seed oil fried chicken place now i think he needs do you know the food critic uh keith lee

[1:00:50] Who goes to small businesses like this. And I'm like, Keith Lee, where are you at? Start tagging him. Wait, you know what just came up for me? You guys know that Gordon Ramsay show. [1:01:02] Nightmare Kitchens or something like that? Nightmare Kitchen. Yeah, Nightmare Kitchen. [1:01:07] But it's in the ShopRite in Philly? It's in the ShopRite, but the vision that came to me is like, you know the... [1:01:16] video where he takes two pieces of white bread. [1:01:20] I'm so sorry. Two pieces of white bread and puts it between the woman's face. [1:01:25] Yeah. [1:01:25] Have you seen this? Yes. And he says, what are you? [1:01:29] Yeah. [1:01:30] I'm so sorry it's so funny like we we will have to edit it in we'll do a cut down but like he yeah he's yelling at this woman he's putting two pieces of white bread between her her her [1:01:42] ears on either side of her ears and yelling at her. What are you? What are you? And I feel like that's what needs to happen with this man. He needs a Gordon Ramsay type intervention. [1:01:51] Oh, my gosh. Okay, Kate, really good stuff. Thank you so much. Any feelings on Burning Man? [1:01:59] I am on your side. I will never go. I have never gone. [1:02:04] That's good to hear. Great to hear. Okay. Well, this was boys club live. We had, we we've covered as ever. [1:02:11] a wild range of, uh, topics today. And, um, we love being here with you all. So thanks for tuning in. [1:02:19] Thank you so much. Bye. Bye.

[1:02:25] Okay, that's our show this week. [1:02:27] Join us live on Twitter every Wednesday at noon. [1:02:31] Or here, I guess.