Ep: 211: Apple Event Highlights, NASDAQ's Tokenized Securities, Guest Mark Stenberg (AdWeek) on Patreon vs. Substack, Guest Adam (Tokenworks) on the PunkStrategy, Guest Andy (Hypurr.fi) on Hyperliquid and $USDH drama, Ralph Lauren AI Styling App

[00:29] Here's this week's show. [00:31] you [00:34] I went on a trip this weekend with a ton of people I didn't know and everybody's like, "So what do you do?" [00:42] And I'm like, I work in tech. [00:44] I should just say that. I should just say that. What do I do? I work in marketing. [00:50] I work in media. I don't know. But then like, I'm like, Oh, I work in media. And people think that I'm like an influencer. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what, that's not it. That's, uh, that's not what it is. So I'm, uh, it's really funny. There's a whole variety of ways that I can talk about what I do. What did you say? Um, I said, I have a media company and creative studio that talks about crypto and then they go, Oh, they're more confused [01:20] - Thank you. [01:21] So anyway, yeah, that's voice thoughts. [01:24] Yeah, I was at an appointment yesterday and she goes... [01:28] What do you do for work? And as you said, [01:30] I work in tech. And like, I feel like you have a lot more, you have a lot more generosity in those moments than I do. [01:36] Mm. [01:37] You're willing to go into it in a way that I'm... It's time to onboard. It's time to talk my book, you know? Totally. No, I really respect that about you. Okay. So first, before we get into it, I want to give a shout out to Polygon. We could not love the Polygon team more. And thank you so much to them for supporting this live stream. If you've touched crypto in any way, chances are you've already used Polygon. It's a chain quietly powering a bunch of stuff that actually works, that people actually use, like Stripe's crypto payments, betting on Polymarkets, prediction

[02:07] and a bunch more honored [02:10] to have them as partners and supporters of this live stream. Thank you so much. [02:15] We love you guys. I love you. [02:18] Okay, next up here, agenda. So we're going to talk, part of why I rushed through our little intro there was because I know we have two things, two stories that we want to get into first before we have our guests come up. We're going to talk about NASDAQ filing for tokenized securities, changing some rules around tokenized securities with SEC. And then Kate's going to give us a briefing on the Apple event, a TLDR there, which I cannot wait for. [02:48] Adweek is going to come on and talk about Patreon versus Substack. We have our friend Adam who's going to talk about the punk strategy play that he's making and also explain a little bit about this NPM attack that freaked everyone out earlier this week. And then we have on a fun guest, Andy from HyperFi on the USDH drama. Andy has promised that he's going to take a shower for this. Huge. Him saying that makes me think that's a big thing. [03:16] That's a big moment. That's a big moment. Yeah. So really excited. Really excited. I'm really excited to learn what the heck is going on there. So that's what we have going on. Anything to add? [03:26] um if we have time we're going to talk about ralph loren and ai powered stylist um we have been not having time recently we've been having no time whatsoever but i don't know we're we're we're moving on a clip here so we'll see okay great um yeah sorry not to be all efficient about everything all good all good i i'm reporting i'm reporting for duty i'm here i'm ready teach me

[03:56] news hit, I think two days ago, Monday, where basically NASDAQ has filed for a rule change [04:06] with the SEC. [04:07] to allow the trading of tokenized stocks. And basically what this means is that right now there's like a way, there's like a digital way that they [04:16] manage the trading and settlement of [04:19] stocks and [04:22] the rule change that they're seeking basically will allow that to happen either the way that it's happening currently or through tokenization. And you can, in the trade, you can choose how you want it settled. And so what's that? Wow. [04:38] Yeah, it's a big deal. It is definitely like for the end user, virtually nothing will change. This is like very much an infrastructure thing. But what it does, um, [04:51] What it does, most notably, it brings the tokenized stocks, like it elevates them to the same level. [04:58] uh, rights and like just thinking about them in the same way as you would a normal stock. The tokenized stock and the normal stock are basically one in the same. So with the tokenized stock you would get things like shareholder voting, you would get things like liquidation claims, like all the stuff that right now the tokenized stocks are missing [05:16] would come through. And so, yeah, it comes at a moment where everyone is talking about this. So Robin Hood and Coinbase, everyone, everything exchange narrative is here. It very much like validates that as a narrative. Soho right now. Validates that as a narrative. And

[05:34] There are, yeah, go ahead. [05:36] Is there... [05:38] did they get into at all or [05:41] why they're doing this, like what's the incentive and [05:44] Yeah, so there's... [05:47] The benefits, again, like this is an infrastructure play, but there's a couple of benefits at the infrastructure level. The first one is way faster settlement. So today the stocks, when they're traded, I think it's like two days. [05:57] like plus two days from the trade. And so now imagine a guy with like a literal paper. [06:05] So this is with the token, I sucks like instant same day. Certainly it becomes a lot faster and that reduces some counterparty risk. Very, a lot cleaner corporate actions. So things like dividends and stock splits and voting, like right now they're, [06:21] the process for that is like really onerous you're like wading through oh like the custodian here and the broker here and all these different things like it it streamlines it into a single source of truth and then i think the thing that mostly the crypto people are excited about is just the what [06:38] interoperability this unlocks for on-chain. Like when you're bringing all of these assets [06:44] in a very legitimate way on chain, it can plug into other on chain systems like lending and collateral and fractionalization and things like that. So I think that that's like for the [06:54] Man, the DeFi boys are going to go so hard. They're going to go so crazy on it. Now, I will say there's one trade-off, which is that it is like – [07:02] It still needs to [07:04] they still need to like follow securities rules. So it won't be 24 seven, for example, like the markets will still close. And like,

[07:13] The scope is like pretty narrow right now still, but I think as like, [07:18] it happens and as a [07:20] as it gets rolled out, I think it'll be interesting to see how it evolves. Great. But yeah, that's that. Cool. Good news. Exciting stuff. Good news. We love a good news story. Love a good news story. Okay. Is it time to bring up Kate? Let's bring up Kate. Let's get into it. Okay. There she is. Boop. [07:40] Hi. Hello. Hello. What happened to my visuals? [07:45] I don't know. I'm also like, I'm having trouble with the deck. So here we go. I'm stuck here. Oh, here we go. [07:53] Here we go. [07:55] Or we could go... [07:57] Uhm? [07:58] this so you can see it better. Oh, I like that. That's great. Nice, nice, nice, nice. [08:02] Okay, so given the Apple event TLDR here... [08:07] I'm not necessarily going to hit on like, oh, my God, the A19 chip in all of them and how it works and all the tech specifics. I want to speak to the things that we're probably going to use in our everyday life if we get this new phone. You're giving the like, I'm at AT&T. [08:25] and he's trying to sell me on the new package. They always want to give you the things that I don't care about. I'm like, listen, I'm going to be using my phone nonstop. This thing is never leaving my hand. I want to shoot the crispiest content. This is what we're dealing with. Natasha has a bite mark in her phone. No, literally, it's so bad. It says so much about me in a way that I'm uncomfortable with.

[08:55] But I have been waiting until September because I want to get the new phone. So yeah. [09:01] Sell me. So I'm going to sell you. All right. [09:04] Um, [09:05] Do you like... [09:07] Colors? We have iPhone 17 standard, Air, and Pro. [09:14] Pro is your typical like bigger screen screen. [09:17] uh, [09:18] Obviously, the Air is the thinnest model yet. [09:21] Mm-hmm. Tiny, tiny. I wouldn't say lightest because I think the iPhone 5 was lighter, but this one's thin and light. And the Air comes in like very... [09:31] Neutral colors. You got the normal light blue, the beige, the white, the black. The standard color, the new colors they got are like these Skittles pastel colors, green, purple, and light blue. Very Easter egg. [09:45] And then the pro, we have black, white, gray, dark blue, and the main character, orange. [09:53] I had this color in high school. [09:54] it's pumpkin orange um emily's asking wait in the comments wait does the 17 pro come in black or is that an unofficial photo [10:02] Kate, are you spreading some fake misinformation? This is an unofficial photo, to be fair. So, [10:09] I mean, it's it's. [10:10] My bad. It's a simple Google. I also didn't write the colors because we had the visual here, but I'm pretty sure [10:18] that the pro does not come in black because a lot of people were tweeting about that. So might be. No worries. We're issuing a real-time retraction, real-time correction.

[10:29] Thank you. Thank you, Emily. Okay. So then other main players here, we have... [10:37] The $59 crossbody strap for the phone that people were clowning. [10:46] Then we have the AirPod Pro 3 that has the live translation, meaning... [10:53] Someone speaks... [10:55] at you [10:56] in a different language. Right now there's a few available. [11:00] We have English, French, German, Portuguese, [11:05] and Spanish available. [11:08] And then it translates into your language that you have set up for it. [11:13] okay it also says that if only one person like if you want to have a back and forth conversation [11:18] If only one person has the AirPod Pro, you can pull it up on the Apple intelligence-enabled iPhone, iOS, whatever. [11:26] they can transcribe it for you on your phone too. [11:29] Okay. Supposedly. [11:30] Fact check me, but [11:32] Those are what articles are saying. Okay. Coming later this year or by the end of this year, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese... [11:40] Simplified. I have no idea what that means. Okay. [11:43] but [11:45] Simplified Chinese. [11:47] Here are the features that I really care about when it comes to like camera stuff. You have dual camera recording, meaning I could be filming an event and I could film the event itself and also front camera. So front and back camera at the same time, I can get my reaction and what's happening in front of the phone.

[12:03] which love that a lot of apps already have that, but it wasn't like native. [12:08] to the iPhone before. Mm-hmm. [12:10] And then we have- We really need more videos of ourselves. Absolutely. We need more selfies, more content. Would you like to see my reaction in real time as something is happening? Yes, you would. Okay. Okay. The thing that I saw that I was like, this is very exciting is [12:27] with the headphones. [12:29] Um, exercise. Oh yeah. Go back. [12:31] Okay. The other side. [12:33] This is going to be huge for me. We have calorie counting and heart rate tracking. [12:36] in the air pod pro incredible incredible because i have always been like [12:41] have a religious, like, [12:45] belief that no one should wear an Apple watch. Yeah. She's very anti-Apple watch. She ain't [12:52] Ain't wearing one. I'm not messing around with that. But I would love to have like some of the benefits of exercise that tracking and stuff like that, that you get with an Apple watch, but I've never... [13:03] been able to experiment with that for myself. So that's crazy. The in-ear stuff is crazy. [13:09] Yeah, those are the two main features that I'm hearing about when it comes to the live translation and the calorie and heart trait tracking, like, uh... [13:19] through their fitness app. So it gives you all that information. Maybe you can count your steps too. [13:24] Huge. Sasha loves that. [13:28] Okay. In a similar vein, though, the Apple Watch, which I know you hate, but they brought back the famous...

[13:35] what do they call it? Hypertension notification. [13:38] And it could tell you if you have sleep apnea. Oh, my gosh. Useful. Crazy. It's useful. So then these are the memes that we're seeing. People are making jokes about translating not only languages, but corporate speak and what they really mean by that. I don't understand the non-performative manner here. Oh, I love this one. So someone said... [14:04] Miranda. [14:05] Miranda Nova, the orange iPhone is for the non-performative male. And then she made a meme and said, this is what I mean. And it's like a starter pack of the non-performative male. It has the orange iPhone and it looks like a finance bro. And he has a normal car, like Royal blue car. He plays like soccer. He, or he, Oh, I get it. He's the antithesis of the Claro Brooklyn bisexual [14:35] He's just a regular, degular dude, and he likes the orange phone because it reminds him of Halo. Okay. [14:43] the video game that's cool um the crossbody bag goes so hard [14:48] um I see that I see that for you Kate I really see it for you I actually love this one I think you already have that Kate like I kind of do in like purse format yeah I know what I know what I'm getting Kate for Christmas it's done we're dusted don't spend $59 on it get the team version also that um I know I want to move on to our next guest but I will say that the crossbody bag is also like this is giving like my my aunties like my mom and her girl all of my cousins in like

[15:18] Yeah, I think they're going to eat this up. That was smart. That was smart. Apple. Nice job. Okay. Kate, thank you so much. My pleasure. Lots of great stuff here. [15:29] Okay. [15:30] All right, let's bring up our guests here. [15:34] Mark. [15:35] We'll bring it to the stage. Hello. [15:39] Hey, hey, how's it going? It is going well. I was loving the iPhone commentary, the regular degular guy part really resonated with me. So that was a good comment. Are you the performative male or are you the regular degular guy? Well, I think I'm, I, you know, I hate to say, but I think probably a blend of both. There was definitely parts of the starter pack for regular degular [16:09] performative mail. Yeah, I mean, the best are always a blend, so we won't hold it against you. Let me do a quick intro here and then we'll get into it. Mark Stenberg, Adweek senior media reporter covering how publishers and platforms are adapting their business models. Previously, a business insider with a focus on media and the creator economy. You wrote this piece here that we're going to chat about today. Patreon courts, sub stack writers with paydays and newsletter revamp. Welcome to the show, Mark. [16:34] Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited. Okay, so this piece, tell us what's happening. [16:41] Yeah, so effectively, this one kind of started as just me hearing, I actually have like a fair bit of intel that didn't make it into the story, I think, so we could get into some of that. But effectively, I just got a tip from a Substack writer who told me that they had been approached by Patreon. And Patreon had said, we're building out a whole new suite of newsletter tools. We plan to launch them, hopefully, well, they plan to launch them this year.

[17:11] And they were using those tools to kind of court some of these sub stack writers to incentivize them and try to get them basically to migrate to Patreon as part of some of these outreach efforts. [17:24] Patreon was also offering like basically financial guarantees. They differed from writer to writer, but basically I ended up speaking with like three different sub stack [17:33] people who had been approached and [17:35] All three of them were given financial guarantees, but they were like different amounts or different types of guarantee. But that was effectively the genesis of it. And then I got Patreon to sort of confirm and offer a few more details. And then that ended up being the story of basically like this growing turf war between Patreon and Substack, which I think is, you know, y'all are wanting to talk about, like kind of leads to the question of if you're a creator, you know, [18:05] And I think that question just got like a little bit more complicated, although maybe it's still not that complicated. [18:12] Well, something that I would... [18:15] about is i've always had the patreon was like the little sister [18:20] which is... [18:21] I think [18:22] very inaccurate. [18:23] So, [18:24] Can we talk about the scale of these different-- [18:26] forms and where they sort of live in hierarchy. [18:31] Yeah, no, I think that your perception is also like was literally like my perception before I started researching this article. In reality, Patreon, I think just has a bit of like a messaging problem because it's bigger. It's been around longer. It has more creators, generates more revenue, has more subscribers, and it's paid out more money.

[19:01] But – [19:02] Effectively, I think Substack, the genius there, I don't know that this was their intention per se, but by courting writers really specifically, they created a whole media panic about top journalists leaving news institutions, which then just led to a glut of coverage about the rise of Substack. And I think that has lent it. [19:22] like an outsized sort of presence in the cultural consciousness. Like I know my parents know what a sub stack is, but they probably don't know what a Patreon is. And sub stacks become this kind of like stand in like Band-Aid [19:33] for a newsletter product. So it's really, I think, [19:38] won the sort of like cultural battle in terms of like, who do you associate with like the creator economy? But I think, yeah, Patreon's been there longer. And it's a simpler kind of function. I mean, effectively, it's just like a paywall for whatever you do. And so yeah, it's the bigger company. They're both private, obviously. So [19:59] we're all kind of just going off of raises and valuations and information that they've shared. But I think this this latest turn is kind of people always say, you know, [20:09] CNN is trying to become Netflix before Netflix becomes CNN, like whatever kind of dynamic we're talking about. Like, I think that's exactly what's happening here. Like Patreon is trying to become Substack before Substack becomes Patreon because Patreon in, you know, really started out just with sort of podcast paywalling and now is moving into newsletters. And Substack started off obviously with newsletters. And in the last year and a half to two years, it's really rolled out a lot of new video and podcast functions.

[20:39] you know, getting into a turf war over the creator space. It's so interesting. Like, I feel like the Substack one, because like when you court the media people who are often not only the loudest, but have the biggest platforms and are the most visible, like all of a sudden it feels and you get like a bunch of media people using your thing, like, you [20:57] And since there's a lot about it, it feels like it's the thing, but that often isn't necessarily like translate to business realities, which I think is like a really interesting dynamic that has been interesting to see Substack sort of navigate. It's like blue sky. [21:09] It's like blue sky, exactly. [21:10] I think, I mean, that comes up a lot when, so I cover the media industry, obviously, and it comes up a lot of like, why do people care about the media industry? It's a small industry by revenue. You know what I mean? But like, it controls the narrative and as a result has sort of an outsized amount of influence. And I think you'd say the exact same thing about Substack being the sort of [21:32] media version of the creator economy and therefore being more on the tips of people's tongues. But in reality, it's a far smaller company than its biggest competitors. [21:44] Okay, so Natasha, your internet's in and out a little bit, but I'm curious what you think about Flip. So Flip shut down a social media platform over the weekend, they had raised $144 million last year. And a lot of the conversation on the timeline was basically about how [22:03] paying content creators to use their platform. That was part of their model. [22:07] It just doesn't work. [22:08] Obviously, Patreon's gonna write some checks for some big writers to come over to the platform. Like, what's your take on sort of the relationship

[22:16] between platforms paying people and like [22:20] maybe sustainability or longevity of that. [22:23] It definitely is not. I mean, you see like YouTube obviously like pays out what 40 or 50% of the revenue that videos generate from ads. So like there are sustainable models in which the platform is. [22:38] Ryan Duffy: pays or splits the revenue, obviously, with the creator, I mean, and that is what sub second patron do in terms of sort of creator acquisition, which which both of these companies call these efforts right they have whole teams of people that basically responsible for poaching. Ryan Duffy: Creators from from one network to another, it is not sustainable in the long run, I mean. [22:58] Patreons raised like a series F, you know, like it's you're effectively trying to create a network effect and you are willing to like make calculated bets as to what writer, if you get them to join, is going to maybe like set that chain reaction off and be that like prominent domino or whatever. But I think it's you don't see like mature. [23:23] social platforms or really even like mature companies in a serious way like [23:27] doing paid creator acquisition. It's just [23:31] not [23:32] worth it from an economic perspective. But I think this speaks to the emphasis that Patreon is trying to put on this newsletter push. I mean, it's kind of crazy how they've sort of like let newsletters languish as a channel, despite being kind of first to the party. So I think this speaks to the fact that they are hoping that if they add this new

[23:54] you know, set of functionality [23:56] that that might be like the missing piece in the substat killer kind of thing but it's more like a [24:01] I think more a reflection of how invested in this they are rather than a sustainable long-term strategy. [24:10] I want to ask your opinion on... [24:13] You know, we've talked a lot about like sub stack and the sub stack of vacation of media and like [24:18] we've seen sort of these proxies of people who have like really made it [24:22] with Substack and they've built like really incredible businesses. And, um, I'm curious what you think about like the longevity of those businesses. If you guys, if you think about, um, [24:33] those as like publications that are going to grow into many different people, or if it's going to continue to sort of be like this influencer led personality led way of approaching media, and how those businesses like maintain and grow, if that's sort of the way that they're [24:49] existing in this new landscape. [24:51] Yeah, that's such a good question. I've talked with Daisy about this, I think. In the media, [24:57] you know, I don't know, media ecosystems, you talk a lot about like right sizing and this idea that like legacy publishers needed to get a lot smaller and that these digital startups would, you know, begin as one person, but then they would scale up and they'd somewhere meet in the middle. And that was like the sustainable middle ground for what digital media was going to look like. But I think all we've really seen happen is like the legacy ones shrink. The creator ones haven't really grown that much. I was, I was on like a panel the other day where I put this to somebody and was like,

[25:27] media company that's now like more than 10 people. You know what I mean? Like there are a few, like you've got the free press, but that was a part of Substack Pro. So Substack literally paid them and has supported them. So that's not like a standard creator situation. I think you have Emily Sundberg, obviously her name comes up all the time here. She's hiring some people and has expanded a little bit. But I think ironically, the majority of these creator publications have [25:57] I don't know. I kind of am... [25:59] I'm hoping I'm disproven because I know Substack characterizes itself as a kind of incubator for new media companies. That's what they've told me, how they think of themselves. [26:12] To which I would say, like, you know, show me a media company. There's maybe also the dispatch. I don't know why both of these are like conservative, but, you know, make of that what you will. Maybe something. Yeah, it's like, I mean, and I guess like who Zeteo just announced it was expanding a little bit, but we're still seeing like very small. [26:32] incremental growth. And I want to see like a media company that blossoms out of this that's [26:39] I don't know, can employ a few dozen people. And I don't think we get that without [26:44] some sort of external investment, which is sort of antithetical to the whole Substack model. But I think we're starting to see that maybe you hit a ceiling unless you take in outside money. [26:55] Yeah, totally. Okay, you just in the last minute here, speaking of newsletters, you just launched a new newsletter called On Background. First of all, where are you doing it is the million dollar question and then what platform and then what's it about?

[27:11] Yeah, what if I was like Patreon? No, it's actually through Adweek. It's just a different, we're actually using iterable. I mean, this is lame. We're using a different kind of CMS to try out this newsletter. So it's slightly different back end platform. But it's through Adweek. It's called on background. Yeah, it's weekly, comes out Wednesday nights. And it's sort of just like an extension of my standard reporting, except though, as we've talked about a little bit here, [27:41] I've described it as like Emily Sundberg meets Dylan Byers meets Brian Morrissey, if that means anything. [27:49] So, yeah, it's a little bit. I think Adweek is one of a number of media companies who are like looking at the creator landscape and saying we need to sort of do as they do a little bit more. And so building out franchises and podcasts and newsletters around reporters is something that we are going to be experimenting with a bit more. And I'm the guinea pig. So exciting. [28:11] for anyone who recognized those names or didn't. And it's just sort of been really curious about this as a domain. [28:16] We'll drop that link in the thread for people to subscribe. Mark, thank you so much for coming on. We'll definitely have to have you on again. [28:21] Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. [28:24] Thank you. [28:25] Hi. [28:26] Hi. The verbs are doing me so dirty. We're having some technical issues. I think this is better. Okay, great, great, great. Okay, let's bring Adam up. [28:39] Morning. Hey, how's it going? Doing good. How are you guys doing? Are you, um,

[28:47] in a public place? I am. Are you allowed? [28:54] It just sounds like there's kids playing the background to me, but you actually sound okay. Bushwick. Self-employed. It's kind of like a playground. It's a self-employment. [29:05] Thanks so much for coming on! [29:07] Of course. Okay, we're going to talk about a few things today with Adam. We'll do a quick intro for... Adam, yeah. Honestly, twice in as many weeks, it feels like. You're... Friend of the pod. No regular at this point. Once a month. That's the goal. Founder of Tokenworks, which is, as you call it, an art studio and playground for on-chain financialized ideas. You guys do a ton of fun stuff on-chain. [29:37] You're gonna talk to us about punk strategy today. [29:41] the perpetual punk machine. Tell us what's going on here. Yeah, so it launched a couple days ago, and basically the idea is that it's a token that [29:49] has a pretty high [29:50] buy sell tax, the ETH pools up from the trades, [29:54] And whenever it can, it'll automatically buy the floor CryptoPunk. [29:58] which [29:59] It was around like 44 or 48 ETH, which I think right now it's 48 ETH. [30:04] Then whenever it can, it'll relist it automatically for slightly higher. So it's 1.2. [30:10] times and then [30:11] whenever that punk ends up selling, [30:13] all of the ETH will go and buy the token again. And so it's kind of this yo-yo effect of the funds going from the pot

[30:19] Oh, to CryptoPunks back to the token. [30:22] which generate fees, which buy more punks. And it's kind of like... Cool. Nice. Okay, let me just explain it back to you, just so I can make sure that I'm understanding it correctly. So, token. [30:34] What's the token? What's the token? Punk strategy. PNKSTR. Okay. Punk strategy. Punk strategy. [30:42] that [30:43] you have programmed in such a way so that the fees for buying and selling are a little bit higher than normal. Those fees go into a pool from the trading of the token, the pool accumulates, and then once it gets to a certain amount, presumably programmatically buys [31:01] a floor [31:02] punk, cripper punk as it and then [31:06] immediately relist it for a 1.2 higher immediately well yeah yeah continue um and then at some point relist it and then someone buys that and then the funds from that purchase go into buying the token again or burning it buys the token and then burns it which in my head is that's the way of like [31:28] giving the money back to the holders, you know, and so it's kind of like, [31:31] Um, [31:33] on one hand it's like we saw like these people like fractionalizing NFC's back in like 2021 [31:37] And it just didn't really work because you never get a payout. There was just a CryptoPunk sale for a fractional vault this year and everyone's like, [31:46] I kind of forgot about it or like it's just been too long. Whereas like having a very obvious milestone in the future is kind of like

[31:53] there's always a goal for this. Like they're either [31:56] Like right now we have 15 for our next punk. So we're either like, we're all excited for the next one to get purchased or, you [32:01] the floor is grinding up and we're really excited for that punk to sell. And so there's always like, [32:05] a liquidity event like in the future and it's [32:08] Cool. Really cool. Okay. So you, you launched this a few days ago. [32:14] And then the pool hit enough that you could buy your first punk. And then... [32:19] There was some drama that happened. Oh yeah. So. [32:22] I made this so it's fully [32:25] permissionless so it'll just run on its own and like okay a lot of people view the crypto punks marketplace as part of the art [32:31] because it's a fully on-chain marketplace and it was just so early. [32:34] So I built it so it would all be automatic. So whenever we hit the ETH, [32:39] There's some things you can't do. Like, it's hard to figure out which punk is the cheapest on-chain. [32:44] And so for things I can't do myself, [32:47] we left these little carrots of like, someone tell me the cheapest punk, and then I'll do it. And so it's kind of like that's like putting in like the missing Lego. [32:55] to what can't be fully automatic, but then eventually bots will do it. And so it will be like [33:01] No one will touch it, but like a bot will fill it in because you get like 50 bucks. And so that'll just kind of keep the mechanism going. [33:08] But I had a bug where anyone could steal all the money. [33:13] And so that sucked, but we fixed it. [33:16] And then... [33:18] it was this whole thing. I had to run home and I got on my Uber back and then I sprinted back to my

[33:24] apartment and then like got my ledger and like did the transaction. [33:27] Then I thought it was fine. The next day I got another message like, hey, you actually have another bug. When the punk sells, all the ETH will be stocked and you'll never get it. It'll never buy the token. But there was some like this crazy way to like solve it that someone sent me. And so we patched it. Um... [33:43] and now it just works so and are these just like guys hitting your dm being like hey i saw this thing or did something did money get trained out no uh these are just guys so the first one is [33:54] pop punk on chain he um he works at limit break he noticed the first one [33:58] The second one was actually this guy, Punk's OTC, who's like the number... I don't know if he's the top Punk holder, but he's like... [34:06] the top volume guy. Like he's always buying them. Like I think he's [34:09] He's just constantly churning it. I think he has like a billion dollars in punk buys and sells. Um, [34:15] I think that it's hard to describe what I do for work, but I can't imagine. He's like the punk market maker. [34:24] Okay. So part of, so this all happens. You have to like patch these issues that are coming in and, and, [34:31] As that's happening, crypto Twitter is like freaking out because [34:36] the CTO of Ledger post this tweet about this attack that's happening. And a quote at one point says that it could affect all chains and just stop making transactions, essentially. [34:50] I am hoping that you can explain what was going on. Yeah, and of course for me, like, for this fix, I had to...

[34:58] use my own CryptoPunk. Just to grab your ledger, yeah. And I had to list my own CryptoPunk for $0 and then buy it back for $1 in the same transaction. And so I get my CryptoPunk. The second I move it out of my ledger, I see on Twitter, it's like, do not interact with anything. Yeah. [35:14] But I looked, it was fine. So yeah, this is actually, it's called a supply chain attack. [35:21] Basically, like, you can think of it as... [35:25] all of these other really complex [35:28] Um, [35:29] programming packages, like JavaScript packages. [35:31] all import from smaller ones. And so for this one, it was like, just see if, you know, this, um, [35:37] see if this thing's a number. And so everyone is used to importing this thing in. And then they hacked this really basic one, and they made it. So instead of saying, just see if this is a number, it's actually drain your wallet. And so it automatically got imported to everything else. [35:53] And so it's like they just it's a small little thing that we all use. Okay. Can I try to explain it back to you? [36:00] I have a better example. Okay, okay. Think of like... [36:04] you know, we're all building these complex like cakes and these, or bakery and we're all making all these restaurants. We're all restaurants. [36:13] and someone poisoned the [36:17] the water you know like no one's checking the water it's something we all use [36:22] Um, [36:23] But it's just so down the chain that it just trickled up and affected every restaurant. Honestly, this stuff-- I don't know if I lag out for that.

[36:32] Sorry, you broke up for a second. But like, clearly that like, what, like, if this can happen in this instance, like, what's preventing the water from being poisoned in all these other areas in which we're dealing with all this money? Exactly. Does that fear not like crawl up to the back of your spine? Or are you like, you're good with it? Yeah, I mean, like, they were pretty quick at... [36:56] fixing it and like every one day within like two hours. [37:00] Who's that? [37:02] They is like the person who got fished, just the actual... [37:06] I mean, there's a lot of safeguards for like... [37:09] Of the package. Yeah. And it's like people... [37:12] people notice, it sets off alarm bells. They're like, "Hey, this package from seven years ago had an update." And so people noticed it. [37:19] It's obviously not the best, but... [37:22] I think they total got like $40. Yeah, okay. Which is kind of insane. This actually happened, I used, I mean, I still kind of work there, but a pre-mint [37:31] who now owns Vulcan. [37:34] two days after I joined, they had a supply chain attack just like this, where they targeted a very specific package that we use and only pushed code for the pre-man site. [37:45] And so anyone who went to Prement and just entered a raffle, it'd be like, sign in with your wallet. And they got like, they attacked at like 3:00 a.m. in the middle of the night. [37:52] it was like a really bad night and they got like $500,000. And so it's like, this isn't something new, but like it's... Okay. Well, I want to give a shout out to the guys who are monitoring the situation and who are fixing the packages and who are spotting the supply chain issues and who are pushing those... Thank you, Scott. Yeah, the guys. I just feel really grateful for the guys who are watching all this, all the time, presumably. Presumably. Okay. So thank you for explaining it. Super helpful.

[38:22] If that... [38:24] happens again you we just got to live on twitter that's just like yeah that's the only way um to know to know if there's going to be another attack it's just be just right here with the phone all the time yeah odds are low um and it's just i mean the best thing you can do is use a lead i mean obviously it's funny like use a ledger it's the ledger cto breaking but it's like even then like they're like use a ledger don't use [38:48] Um, [38:49] hot wallets, but then [38:51] I use my ledger a lot. I'm not, like if they switched the address, I wouldn't notice. I like the thing I would, but like it's, it was something like, they changed the front end and then when you go to the ledger, it doesn't match. [39:04] I feel like I'm not always, if I'm not expecting a hack, I feel like I'm not like checking it every time. Yeah, absolutely not. [39:10] Totally. Yeah. [39:12] Cool. Okay. Thank you. That's super helpful. Okay. And then last questions here around what's next for punk strategy. So what percentage are you guys at for your next buy? [39:23] Yeah, so we still have that punk listed. [39:27] Okay. So whenever that sells, it's listed at 58 ETH, which is the floor is currently 46. Yeah. [39:34] OK. [39:35] And maybe it's 48. Do you feel like you need to bring that down a little bit? Or do you feel like it's going to sell? No, I think it'll sell eventually. And if it doesn't, it's always there. I think there's also like a funny, we're also, we have 18 ETH pool for the next one. Okay. Okay. It's just going. [39:51] i think once we get either closer to that floor of the next one selling people will buy to speculate that'll generate more fees that'll buy more punks um

[39:59] And so, [40:00] I don't know. So you guys will buy another one even if the first. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. So we could have we could have 10. We could have. Okay. We could have 10,000. We could buy them all. Wow. Wow. Wow. But I think I don't know. It's really hard to say like how it'll exactly go out. Um. [40:16] I was originally listening at 2x and people were like, oh, let's do 1.2. And so there's some things I still can change, but the goal is to like... [40:22] it all runs on its own now and it's like i never have to touch anything there's nothing i can eventually i like renounce the contract and like i don't have to it'll just be like a fun little thing [40:31] That's the goal. [40:33] I'm getting fees like every there's 10% buy sell tax, 8% funds the pot, 2% is taken as a rake fee. [40:41] 1% of that goes to me. [40:43] 1% of that is split actually between all of the Tokenworks NFT holders. So there's like 140 of them and they're just like, [40:49] you know if they minted they got like 0.05 which isn't you know but that was like my way of like we're trying to align incentives and like you don't have to buy the token until like [40:56] support it and so on. [40:58] Cool. Adam, thanks for coming on. Friend of the... [41:03] front of the stream um we'll see you next we'll see you next month in the thread here so that people perfect [41:12] awesome all right i'll see you guys bye see you later [41:16] Great. Is it hyper liquid time? It's hyper liquid time. I'm so excited. [41:21] Let's do it. I'm so excited. Andy. [41:23] hi hey guys how you doing oh oh wow professional setup i really oh yeah i used to do streaming with chain link back in the day and they let me keep the mic after i left so nice well you sound great yeah

[41:39] I lay it on... [41:40] I showered for you guys. I got the good mic. Thank you. Wow. Huge. You look great. I'm sure you smell great. We're so good with you. Just a quick intro. Andy, growth lead at HyperFi, the leveraged lending marketplace for accelerated yield on Hyperliquid. [41:57] um pulled you in as a hyper liquid correspondent today and so happy to be the hyper liquid correspondent yeah so we're on the evm um but there's all this drama going on about the stable coin usd h the ticker and so happy to chat about it it's ongoing it's like updating now in the discord still there's tons going on okay okay so give us the give us the tlgr like what's what's happening what's the nope [42:23] Right. So the Hyperliquid team itself has, they have access to the tickers that go on Hyperliquid. And so those are very valuable and people want them. In the past, they had, and still today, you can buy a ticker, you can buy a spot ticker, you, Natasha, can go on there and bid for it yourself, and you can have it. And so right now, for example, USDXL is our synthetic dollar, we got a governance token as well that we bid for those ticker spots, and we own those. [42:50] Well, USDH has been reserved because it's like a stablecoin that is clearly hyperliquid, USDH, it's like this denominated. And so that has been reserved and you can't just go and buy that and bid for it at auction. Everyone's been wondering, what are they going to do with it? Are they going to launch their own stablecoin? Well, a little less than a week ago, the team announced they're not going to launch it. They're going to,

[43:12] make the auction available to the public for up to a governance vote. And basically they said, everybody come. And if you want to, [43:20] have this ticker will uh put a proposal in the discord and then uh after a few days and there's a whole timeline and everything coming up soon [43:29] Um, the people who stake hype can vote and, and we'll decide now, given the amount of revenue that, uh, hyper liquid does to think about having a USDH ticker that could potentially be the quote asset instead of USDC for some of their purpose markets. [43:59] and infighting and backroom yapping and things. And then it hit the timeline as well. So yeah, it's been a delight. Wait, 5 million in fees a day? That's the stakes here? [44:12] We got to put our hat in the ring. [44:16] Pro proposal, you got time. Well, so that's what Hyperliquid makes. And so people see the top line numbers and they think, well, I'll take $5 million in fees a day. Having this ticker doesn't guarantee that you will be the quote asset on Hyperliquid. We don't know that. That's actually one of the things. So it is an auction for, it's basically a bid for to get this ticker. It is not access to the revenue.

[44:42] Just the ticker. Now, all the other systems that that ticker might go to, that is what's up for play. And where does that revenue go? That's what's up for play. And so we don't know. And the team hasn't said, we're going to replace USDC. They don't say that. They would never come out and say that. And in fact, maybe the system doesn't let you do that. Like, we're not quite sure there's some gray area here. [45:03] Okay, so the teams that are coming out and like pleading their case... [45:07] what are they coming out with? What are these proposals looking like? [45:11] what's giving the most compelling sort of case for voters? [45:16] Well, the big story in Hyperliquid community is, are you Hyperliquid aligned? And so, you know, alignment is a very much a factor. And what Hyperliquid has done with that 5 million in revenue a day, they buy back their token and a massive, you know, 90 plus 90% [45:32] 8% or something of that a day buys back hype and sticks it into a fund. And so that is thought of as hyper liquid aligned. And so a lot of these proposals to be aligned are saying, well, we're going to use the revenue to give back to the community. And several of them are 100% of the revenue that the amount, the BIPs that these guys are taking or proposing on this are very, very small. And so [45:55] And it's really just like, how are you going to make revenue on this? That's actually kind of a question that I have that's still outstanding that I haven't seen a lot of answers for. But one of the proposals, one of the leading ones. [46:05] say half the revenue they're going to use to just have their own assistance fund and buy back hype, just like the hyperliquid team does. The other 50% they use to build up a treasury so that they can launch new markets with additional funds. Others are committing it to other growth markets.

[46:23] programs like to be able to do emissions on the EVM. So if you create a pendle market or a lending market or an LP or whatever, they can do emissions as well and incentivize that. So there's all sorts of different ways, but most of it has a mass, the leading ones all have a massive chunk of the revenue going back to the community in some form. [46:43] Okay. You have been very deliberately not naming any names. Are you doing that? [46:49] No. Okay. Can we talk about- No, no. I'm happy to. I am- [46:53] I'm personally taking a neutral stance. I think we're hyper-fized, so we're a lending market. We'll take it and you can borrow it and lend it and we'll be fine. That's how we make our revenue in general. And so there's a lot of great proposals out there. There's kind of four leading ones and some other notable ones. Native Markets is a leading one. Max Feige, formerly of Barnbridge and many other sort of stablecoin adjacent platforms. [47:23] and a couple other seasoned folks, but they haven't launched anything. This is a new project, but they have a great proposal. He's a very hyperliquid ecosystem, has been an advisor and investor in a ton of stuff. Oh, hi, Imp. Good to see you. And so he's really proposing this hyperliquid aligned one. He's got a lot of whales and validators in his court. Paxos, affiliated with PayPal and Venmo, also affiliated with Nucleus Labs, which is a very hyperliquid

[47:53] Curator. They've put in a bid as well. And along with their bid and revenue sharing and community and stuff, they've got like $20 million that's going to go... [48:03] into something. I don't know. They're just like, we got 20 mil. We're going to put it in and stick it in. So they're coming out with some big guns, with some bribes. Athena as well, who does USDE and their sort of basis trade, SUSDE coin. They've come out with a proposal as well. [48:18] And all of these providers also have like various other TradFi or custodian sort of relationships. So Max and Native Markets, they've got Bridge, which is the Stripe one. Paxos has PayPal and Venmo. Athena has got BlackRock and Anchorage. [48:34] And then a couple of really interesting ones are the DeFi native ones. And so Rune from MakerDAO, Sky and USDS, he put in a bid that is actually really interesting to see if they were to bring something like Adai and Maker and Spark to Hyperliquid, which has not been on Hyperliquid yet. [49:04] And then there's a bunch more, but of course it's also crypto. So they're like, there's joke ones in there and there's like garbage and there's spam and there's all sorts of stuff. So, um, it's, it's a really fascinating thing. And when you say like in there. [49:18] is this like all happening on discord like i'm seeing obviously like in crypto twitter like all this sort of campaigning and petitioning that people are doing like on the timeline but where is the like official

[49:29] like ground zero for these... [49:32] different [49:34] proposals totally public it's in the hyper liquid discord there is a specific channel that says usdh and there's proposals in there and then each one of them has a litany of comments that are like constantly updating that's why i'm looking over to see like who's posted now um and back and forth really good questions hard-hitting insightful questions from you know fart master 24 who has some you know multi-millionaire hedge fund you know operator [49:59] that has really insightful questions about custody and right. And if it's Stripe via, via the bridge relationship, do they have control over the funds? Like is them being a competitor with their own new chain, whatever it's called a weakness and things like that. So, so people are really digging in and asking a lot of hard questions. There's fighting as well. Like people are coming out on the timeline then, you know, shit posting as well and actually calling people out. And then of course there's all the backroom telegram chats as well that are happening. [50:29] to that in a second but i do think like i i feel like there is something so deeply healthy about having this type of discourse and and stress testing these ideas and having like questions come from so many different people like i just feel and having that be in a public forum feels or at least a semi-public forum feels [50:45] really healthy and like I feel like is [50:48] learning that we can apply to [50:50] other sectors and other industries. It feels great. Although I know that it does cause a lot of drama and infighting. Still, at the end of the day, there's something anti-fragile about it. There's a clear agreement among hyperliquid community and hype holders is that the end result is going to be good. Whoever has a proposal, it's going to be good. So my perspective, I'm neutral and I'm trying to be neutral for the lending market, but also

[51:13] The top six, they look like great proposals to me. It's going to turn out pretty well. And so it's up to people to decide on those details exactly how and who they want to implement it. It's not quite the Dow vision of everybody shared governance and all that sort of thing, but it is public and it is democratic and it is fair. Bring a proposal. [51:43] What's really interesting is, [51:45] It's a massive revenue vector for the hyperliquid team that they have just said, [51:49] Nope. [51:49] You do it. Community figure it out. And that's really cool. That's fascinating. [51:55] Yeah. Okay, one more thing here that I just want to get your take on really quickly. I do think love [52:02] debating an open like best proposal wins. There is a little chat on the timeline that's happening now around maybe that there is more backroom dealings than [52:11] We're privy to or folks are privy to on the discord. There was a tweet that went viral yesterday from Hasiba Dragonfly starting to feel like USDH RFP was a bit of a farce hearing from multiple bidders that none of the validators are interested in considering anyone besides native markets. It's not even a serious discussion as though there was a backroom deal already done. Then he goes on to say a ton more stuff. But what's your what's your take or what's your feeling on that? [52:34] Well, so as far as the Hyperliquid team, nothing they've ever done has suggested backroom deals of any kind. So I think that they are not involved. I think they have pitched this out and laid the framework and done that. Now, when it comes to the validators, well, who are the validators? There are people who have acquired Hype.

[52:51] and have staked it and are operating. If they have a relationship with other whales and other investors and validators, like, is that a backroom deal? Well, you buy the hype, right? And certainly people have and are doing that. The insinuation from Hasib's tweet and from other people is that Max in particular, because he's been such a hype whale, knew this was coming. That does not seem to be the case. In my opinion, they were building their project native markets with or without USDH [53:21] and they've said so in the proposal, if we don't get it, we're still going to launch a stable coin and do this stuff. Yeah. [53:27] So I think what people are most concerned with is the RFP kind of came out from the team and then very quickly Max posted his thing and then they've updated it since. [53:39] Maybe he was just locked in. Maybe he was just like, let's go. [53:44] The Hyperliquid community is very, very locked in and people did move very fast on this. [53:57] you know, Maker and Rune haven't thought about it. That's preposterous. Everybody's looking at Hyperliquid and sees these revenue numbers, sees the activity. The reason it has those numbers is there's real people doing real finance and real trading there in size, and nobody is ignoring that. [54:11] you know, if you're not thinking about, if you're not thinking about what you're going to do on Hyperliquid, I think you're probably missing out. And so for people that kind of have a plan in motion, post it, and then see what other people are thinking in the conversation, I think is very reasonable. And Max, to his credit, he's been in the Hyperliquid community for ages, well before the airdrop and well before all the hype, if I may. And so he does have great relationships and he's built a tremendous goodwill among the community. Now, I think other people have as well,

[54:39] many other people in the proposals. And so, of course, there's [54:43] Is it backroom deals if you're in telegrams with people saying, hey, here's what I think is good about my project? I think that's just how it goes. That's democracy. Like, genuinely, like, you have conversations with people. So, personally, that's what I see. [54:57] cool nice um andy thank you so much i've learned i've learned so much and uh we'll have to have you [55:03] back on at some point, maybe after we see who wins the bid. I'll be your hyper liquid correspondent. There we go. In the ecosystem. It's nice to come out. I wore my Ethereum shirt. [55:20] Great, great, great. Wow, great. [55:23] Great guests. [55:24] Okay, so we bring Kate back on real quick to talk about [55:28] Ralph Lauren? Yes, please. [55:31] We're context switching. We're context switch. Wow. We're switching. [55:35] Um, [55:36] How's it going, Kate? Great. You know, I missed you guys so much. But what a great conversation about hyper liquid stuff. [55:45] So great. Okay. Let's go to, let's go to some Ralph Lauren. I'm in the wrong. Um, [55:53] window. I'm on the wrong window here. No worries. This is what I know. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. Ralph Lauren launched an AI app, essentially a styling app that is [56:08] a virtual Ralph Lauren.

[56:12] Or Ralph Lauren? Lauren. Lauren. Ralph Lauren. Yep. [56:17] and people can go on and get styled by him. Am I missing something? [56:20] Um, you have the gist. It's, uh, it's less fluffy than that. It's more so just like a chat bot on the app that already exists. [56:32] And it's style for you. Almost like when you're scrolling down after you see a shirt and it's like, here's what you could pair it with. [56:38] Okay, okay, okay. So it's a little, like all these articles are a little fluffier than the actual experience. [56:44] This is me going through the flow. I went through the flow last night. [56:48] And you go on to the you download the app, Ralph Lauren, or sorry, Lauren. And this is the first thing that pops up. Ask Ralph. So it is a AI powered conversational styling tool. Sorry if you can hear that in the background. And it's on their app. So then when you actually have to log in, which is really annoying, you know, [57:10] I was hoping that you could just continue as guests, but you have to like sign in, create an account, create an account through like Salesforce. I'm like, what is all this on the back end? I was like, you're being logged into Salesforce. And I was like, what? Okay. But then you pick your preferences. They go of our brands, which do you like? What's your style? Like preppy, casual, yada, yada, yada. You pick them, men, women, both, whatever. [57:36] And then it finally says, okay, now that you've created your profile, [57:41] ask Ralph, you know, ask Reeves. And so I went, I'm going to base camp. And so I said, hey, Ralph, what should I wear to base camp in Vermont? And then are we going to catch you in this with a belt, a belt around the waist? I think it's like $300 jacket. It's not for me. And so it

[58:11] says it's conversational, right? Almost like a chat. You ask for one thing and it says, well, are you looking for cozy vibes, sporty vibes? Okay. And was it pretty generic like that? Or was it able to like get into generic, but I will say, because right now the only products available are the Ralph Lauren products, the other brands, like I'm more of a double RL girl. Like I like [58:41] kind of stuff. Like it's nice, but it's not my vibe. And so that's all they have. So when I'm like 40, it's giving me a fuchsia [58:49] sweatsuit or like an American flag sweater or a tennis skirt, which, you know, I'd pair with something else. But the idea is they pull from their existing catalog from years back. So all the photography and the styling is on brand to Ralph Lauren. Just a quick question. Is Ralph Lauren alive still? I don't know. He is. He is, right? Yeah, he is. Just unrelated. [59:19] Like, I feel like it's a different thing. [59:22] From the grave. They're alive and then they've created an AI system. [59:26] sort of version of him maybe that's what they're like planning for um well i would hope that he would like give his consent before like you know i mean there's something weird about like if you had passed and then uh-huh i want to ask ralph post uh what's it called post uh yeah um okay okay thank you um my pleasure what a fun what a fun show great to be here with you all

[59:52] We'll catch you next week. [59:54] Okay, that's our show this week. Join us live on Twitter every Wednesday at noon. Or here, I guess.