Ep: 205: Creator Coins & Solana Co-Founder Crash Out, Astronomer PR Masterclass, LeBron AI videos, Guest Rya Jetha on Cluely, Guest Ty Haney on TYB and Outdoor Voices, Guest Adam from TokenWorks on $CTO

[00:28] Here's this week's show. [00:30] you [00:31] We're back. [00:33] We're back. Summer is over. Summer is done. [00:37] Summer's done. Well, summer's not done. Summer's done... [00:41] summer's done for this live stream. Summer, summer is done, honestly, kind of spiritually, and it's time to get back on the saddle. It's time to lock back in. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm feeling about it. We're, we're nearing the end of our [00:56] We, I am nearing the end of... [00:58] what I'm capable of for summer vacation. I see that. I see that in you. Um, also your children are about to go back to school. So it is almost, it is summer over. Yeah. We got, we, this is the last, this is the last week. And then next week they go back to school today or actually yesterday for lunch, just to illustrate how over it I am. Mm-hmm. [01:17] lunch for one of my kids was a hot dog bun. [01:21] With jelly in it. [01:25] uh [01:26] Oh my God. That's not surprising at all, but it is, it is entertaining. That was entertaining. And I looked at it and I thought, [01:34] Good enough. It's good enough. Not even peanut butter. No. I didn't want to have the fight about the peanut butter. It was just going to be a whole thing. So I was just like, you know what? [01:43] Jelly. Some calories in. [01:46] is what we need right now carbs sugar bread honestly what a treat [01:51] Doesn't know how good he has it. [01:54] How are you? Tell us about your...

[01:58] I'm great. I'm back in New York. It feels so good to be back. It's very hot. I love the heat, though, so that's fine. And it's summer in the city. People are in, people are out. It's [02:13] I don't know. I wish I had, oh, I did have something happen today where I went to my solid core class. [02:19] This morning. [02:20] packed packed house and we're about the class is 50 minutes [02:25] And we're about 25, 30 minutes in. We've done... [02:29] We've done the main core section. We've done one leg. [02:34] Okay. We're finishing the second leg. And... [02:37] the woman, the instructor, is like... [02:41] I'll be right back, which if you've been to a solid core class is very, babe, like you're staying here. This is what the money's for. Exactly. Like every moment I'm paying almost a dollar a minute here and she's coming in and out and we're in like, um, one of those like pulses with the bungee. And so just like dying. Anyway, she comes, the fire alarm starts going off. [03:05] Oh, loud, very loud. And she's like, comes back in. She's like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, this has been happening. We don't know how to stop it. We don't know how to stop it. You all can just leave. [03:17] you all can just stay or you all can just leave. And [03:21] It's so loud. I can't express to you how loud it is. Like, just... [03:24] just ripping through the room yeah not a single woman moves everybody there is like no we're here yeah i'm here i've made it here i've got one leg done one leg is shaking the other leg is ready to go yeah and she like comes back in she's like no no like

[03:40] Please go outside. And so like, then we all go outside. We all wait outside. And she was like, okay, I guess like, [03:47] the sound stopped this thing is still blinking she's like the fire department is on the way [03:51] Hmm. It's she's like, this has been happening. There's not a fire. It's just, there's an issue. And she goes, I mean, I guess if you guys want to finish the other leg, like we can go back in and like no music, no mic. And everybody's like, yeah. And I was like, wow, all of us are insane. Like we all just need to like really reset completely. Anyway, I hope you got your money back for your class. She did say at the end, she was like, we're going to credit you guys. Don't worry. We're going to credit you guys. And I was like, yeah, that's necessary. So in some ways, [04:20] it ended up working out, but in other ways I was like, okay, this was a half, Hey, half baked solid. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, that's my update. Um, okay. Should we talk, do some draft tweets? Yeah. I have one draft tweet that, um, I've really been workshopping for a while and, Oh, um, also I feel just really quick to, um, tell people this is boys club live. [04:50] talk about [04:52] what's happening in tech news we bring on smart people to talk about what they're working on and [05:00] That's it? [05:00] That's it. Yeah. I feel like [05:04] We're going to have a couple. We'll go through the agenda in a minute, but just really quick, just to get us in the mood here. [05:09] couple draft tweets. It's been a while since we've done draft tweets. Yeah. I have a few. Okay. You go first. Okay. I have good news and bad news.

[05:19] The good news is [05:20] men are no longer buying sports cars for their midlife crisis. [05:24] The bad news is that they're now buying [05:26] I didn't. [05:30] Okay, you need to figure out what they're buying. No, no, no, no. I have it. The bad news is that they're now buying Toyota 4Runners. [05:36] Oh, okay. And I have this ready to go. [05:40] But I feel like I'm going to... [05:43] I'm it's gonna make a lot it's gonna make everyone upset it's gonna make noise it's well like that's Toyota forerunner men are gonna get upset uh-huh uh sports cars guys are gonna get upset men just generally might get upset by it but um sounds like a perfect tweet sounds like a perfect tweet exactly exactly exactly [06:01] But I got to tell you, in Nashville, it's an epidemic. Really? All the men, the dads... [06:07] In my neighborhood, at least like, uh, [06:10] What is it? They're buying the Toyota 4Runner. What does it look like? It's a gorgeous, it's a beautiful car. Okay. It's a beautiful SUV. It's like the bigger... [06:21] Toyota SUV, it's like the more sporty SUV of the Toyota line. Okay, okay, okay, okay. And is it, um, [06:28] Okay. It's gorgeous. It's a gorgeous car. It's not a truck. It's not a truck. I would buy one. Um, no, but it's like truck adjacent. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Anyway, that's mine. What's yours? Um, okay. Well, I have a few, um, [06:42] One is I just have the concept of, [06:47] as always there's nothing i don't know what the concept is or was but it's there um i have one that i do think i'm going to tweet at some point it's breaking

[06:56] in all caps colon i am no longer a woman in crypto [07:00] Great. Just generally that it's, it's not really meaningful of any kind. Um, [07:06] I have something around wanting to develop this idea of saying when people say, [07:14] So someone says something I need to figure out what that is and then say dead ass. [07:21] And it's like, what's the most... [07:23] ridiculous thing for someone to have said then followed with dead ass. Uh-huh. [07:28] So I'm workshopping. Nothing's big. Nothing's big. One other thing that I'll say about tweeting that I've really recognized recently, and I do think there's a draft tweet in here somewhere too, I only tweet... [07:39] during my [07:41] luteal face. [07:43] Yeah, like literally you can see it. Like I went the other day and I was like, oh, I actually only have the creative energy for tweeting. [07:51] when I think I don't actually know my phases, but that seems right. In one phase of the phases. I totally believe it. I 100% believe it. Okay, let's jump in here. We actually only have a few minutes to get through what is quite an involved story. Before we get started, a little shout out to our sponsor, Polygon. Thank you so much to Polygon for the support of this live stream. We love them. If you've touched crypto in any way, chances are you've already used Polygon. It's the chain quietly powering a bunch of the stuff that actually works, that people actually use, [08:21] crypto payments, betting on poly markets, prediction markets, and a bunch more. Just MVPs in the world of Voice Club and in the world of Web3, to be honest. So thank you so much to Polygon for sponsoring. Love you guys. We love you. Quick on the agenda. We are going to have three guests today. First, we're going to talk about the content coin crash out that we saw on the timeline over the weekend. And then we have a bunch of guests, Raya Jatha from the San Francisco Standard. We're going to talk about Cluelly with her, Ty Haney. We're going to talk

[08:51] and then Adam from Tokenworks on CTO, and then some quick hits at the end. [08:57] So, okay. Five minutes on. I'm so excited to hear about this. Five minutes on the crash out. Unfortunately, in order to get to the crash out, I have to give you the backstory. Okay. Which is the first thing that happened is Cooper Turley posted this post. [09:11] Twitter that was basically like, buy a post, it goes back, it goes viral, you [09:16] earn money basically he did [09:18] What's a classic? [09:19] Cooper Turley posted at this point, which is like, [09:22] the evolution of music nfts it's like content coins like he was just kind of like talking about it okay it was fairly benign this guy sterling crispin [09:31] quote tweets, Cooper's post, and... [09:34] lays out [09:36] what is a pretty coherent [09:38] bear case for creator coins. He's basically saying like most of them are going to go to zero. It's meme coins by any other name. You guys are calling it something different now, but it's basically just meme coins, basically just shit coins basically. And it's disingenuous to sort of like intellectualize them. They're going to zero. [09:53] I don't know why we keep doing this. It's basically what he says. It's this big, long post. And then that goes a little viral. And then I'm going to go to this next slide here. This is Sterling Crispin. And he goes a little viral with this first post. Jesse steps in. [10:08] as he does. And he's basically saying, well, actually, [10:13] doing the Jesse pitch, which is basically like, hey, I actually think that these... [10:17] I actually think that content has value. [10:19] and that creators should share in the upside that they create for these social networks that they've been posting on for the last 15 years on social media and that a token is a great way to do that. Like I think that's Jesse's

[10:31] position. That's Jesse's position. He's talked about it endlessly. And I think that he lays it out very clearly here and they go back and forth for a bit. Sterling responds. And it's basically like, he is it amicable or is it everyone seems very well intentioned. Everyone's being nice. Sterling responds to Jesse's post and is like, [10:50] lays out this really convoluted system where he's trying to he's basically trying to get around like snipers and bots and basically saying the playing field isn't like fair yes that could be true tokens are an imperfect way to do that because the playing field is messy because of snipers are all these like automated things that happen around the tokens and it's all like [11:12] we're we're working it out on the timeline publicly it's all feeling like totally fair and good okay so then um this post comes [11:20] which is he's one of the co-founders of Solana. Okay. And he says, Ella, what does Zora coins have any claims on future cash flows from Solana? [11:30] Creators. Okay. And... [11:34] Solana has entered the chat. And he's saying basically like, [11:37] It's kind of an extension of what they had been arguing about, well, not arguing, discussing previously was like about this idea of where the fundamental value is and what we're calling them and like what this is. And like where that value eventually flows in an end state. Yeah. And he's basically saying like Zora tokens are the same as any other token. Like let's not, again, like let's not just, let's not be disingenuous about it and just call it what it is.

[12:04] And then this is the big load bearing post. Okay, almost a million views. Yeah, this one is the thing that really travels. And this is the co founder of Solana saying I've said this for years meme coins and NFTs are digital slop and have no intrinsic value like a mobile game loot box people spend $150 billion a year on mobile gaming. [12:25] So, of course, this is very rich coming from... Just the richest. Very rich coming from him. A meal in France rich. This is so crazy. I can't even just begin pot kettle to the 100th degree. Pot kettle. Yeah, pot kettle. Major pot kettle. I mean, I will say that kind of the second half of this tweet is him saying... [12:51] It's. [12:52] is him kind of saying it's still an industry. Mm-hmm. [12:56] there's a lot of money there, but that there's no intrinsic value to it. Like he kind of, he kind of like rounded a corner on an argument. [13:04] but didn't land the plane, I fear. [13:06] And also, I fear... [13:10] Not the person to make this argument. Mm-hmm. [13:13] at all. He's made so much money. I mean, just so we're really clear about why we're saying this. He's made... [13:20] Thank you. [13:21] so much money on [13:24] the back of meme coins and nfc solana meme coins maybe a digital slop to put it his way yeah [13:31] um okay so he says this timeline this is why i saw a this is what everyone's doing everyone's like hey guy you can't do this you can't have it both ways oh my gosh i saw a um

[13:45] a meme or a tweet that i sent you um it was like having a lovely sunday morning opening the timeline and all i hear is content coins and like people were like shooting themselves basically and i was like okay there's something to catch up on here something is transpired here it is um [14:03] Now, I will say, in fairness, as you can imagine, everyone started having a [14:08] a good old time with it and he was he he seemed in on the joke and like oh okay not like [14:16] I don't think that his initial original post was like a joke, but I think like he got [14:22] there he was yeah he was having a good time with it great okay i'm glad to hear that i i i think there's no other path forward [14:30] Besides, [14:31] having [14:33] a sense of humor about it. I totally, I totally agree. So, and I guess he did the thing that he got a lot of attention, which is the goal and in many ways. So, okay. Who else weighed in? Yeah. So this is kind of a both sides are, [14:49] response that I thought was kind of interesting and I felt like [14:53] Thank you. [14:54] was a good sort of [14:56] culmination of the back and forth. Now, I will also say like, in fairness, it's a new primitive, like it's a new thing. And so I think it's totally appropriate for everyone to have these like different thoughts about it and to work them out publicly, I think is actually like really positive. And I think- Very healthy. [15:12] Healthy, yeah. And I think we air stuff out and we see where the boundaries are and we see what works and what doesn't work and how people respond to things. And so I think...

[15:21] I think the conversation around content audience and us like figuring it out together as an industry is great. [15:27] Like that's ideal. And this person is basically saying like, speaking back to that idea of where the fundamental value lies. And they're saying like, yeah, everyone has a good point, basically. But what it comes down to is that right now with Jesse's thesis, [15:44] the value accrues to that token and the content is valuable and accrues that token but like maybe the content isn't valuable [15:52] And like, maybe we need to think about how a majority of the content, especially in [15:58] a world where it's AI generated and people are stealing content from each other like [16:04] We've made the assumption in this argument that the content is valuable. And I think for when we think about content and creators, like that content is valuable, but there's a premise that I [16:16] should also be questioned as well, which is like, is all content on the internet? [16:21] Right. [16:23] And I think the counter argument would be like, the market will regulate itself. The eventual market cap of that content will tell us [16:30] whether [16:31] it is perceived in the eyes of users and fans and followers as, [16:37] valuable or not. Yeah. [16:39] interesting stuff i love a crash out on the timeline truly doesn't who does not it's one of the best okay should we go to some of our quick hits [16:50] Yes.

[16:52] Okay, the first one is astronomer crisis PR. [16:56] This is a little bit old news at this point because the speed of the internet, but... [17:01] Do you want to explain or do you want me to? Totally. I would be surprised if anyone who's on the stream right now hasn't seen the story. But it's mostly just, I guess, an acknowledgement. But yeah. So Gwyneth Paltrow. So this is just giving some like this, this PR. [17:15] firm their flowers. Totally. Yeah. We're just like, well done. So of course the infamous Coldplay kiss cam video last week, two weeks ago, how I feel like I've aged a [17:28] Like it's been a hundred years since that day. [17:31] So, [17:36] KISS CAM. [17:37] All the fallout. We don't need to talk about that. [17:40] uh, [17:41] Astronomer had been, I don't even know if they had released a statement. I think they had been. They did. [17:47] they released a statement and they were like we're going to be investigating this [17:52] this [17:53] issue. Well, you'll hear from us again. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Watch this space. See you soon. Anyway, over the weekend, this video drops and it was basically Gwyneth Paltrow, wink and a nod being the temporary spokesperson for Astronomer. And instead of addressing anything to do with the [18:14] moment that went hyper viral and the affair and the people involved, she just talks astronomer's book, which is basically like, we are infrastructure partners.

[18:25] provider service and they have data, some data, something, and they have some sort of conference coming up. And so she basically talks about those two things and 36 million people watch what is essentially an ad about [18:39] astronomer, a company that previously like 10 people knew about. So it was really just a master class in like capturing a moment. Obviously, Gwyneth Paltrow being the ex-wife of [18:49] Chris Martin that brought some extra energy to it. I think what is what it is so brilliant about it. Totally. Totally. The full and like conscious for those who don't know, how could you not? But like Chris Martin and Gwyneth Paltrow famously, I think, [19:05] when they got divorced said, [19:07] were consciously encoupling. And it was like this line that ripped [19:11] waves through every corner of my world, at least, and became so canon. [19:19] to us, to them and to a way of talking about divorce. And it was just this moment, this thing. [19:26] And then when you saw the... [19:28] original astronomer [19:30] or not astronomer, cold play. I almost said astronomer live stream. [19:36] Coldplay concert kiss cam thing. Like the first thing that came to mind was like, oh man, so much conscious uncoupling is going to happen. So bringing Gwyneth into the fold on this was really just like a pleasure to witness and watch. Um, great, great, great, great stuff. [19:50] Yeah. [19:51] Okay. Next one. Oh, and the other thing about this is that it's Ryan Reynolds,

[19:57] PR agency or marketing agency. Right. Which was jumped in and pitched this and was at the helm. [20:05] And so honestly, well done. Well done. [20:08] Kudos. Kudos to you, babe. Kudos. Okay, next story here. Okay, really enjoyed this story, which is about... [20:17] uh there's [20:19] I don't know if you spent, have you spent any time on Facebook lately? [20:24] Have you been on Facebook? No, but I did have a friend. I went to dinner last night with a friend and she was like, how's Dina? And I was like, Oh, she's great. And like, was kind of updating her on your life. And, and then she was like, [20:35] really into Facebook marketplace and I couldn't be enjoying it more. And I was like, totally agree. Totally agree. Yeah. I spent a lot of time Facebook marketplace, but Facebook proper, right? The feed [20:46] I haven't been there. [20:48] in [20:49] sane. It's AI slop primarily. AI slop [20:53] And it's the most hysterical stuff that you can imagine. [20:57] that [20:58] just gets into the algorithm and then gets like spit out. I don't, I even set up, I set up like a new Facebook account. [21:06] for my marketplace shenanigans and uh [21:10] And so I'm just getting like raw unfiltered. Oh, it's like, yes, just the pure algorithm. Yeah. It's like trying to get me to hook onto something and it's like, [21:20] I don't know, bears on trampolines, like ring cam that's like, or it's a million cats in a field crying or like, it's, it's the craziest stuff that just appeals to our weirdest basis. Instinct. I

[21:38] that there's there's like a lot of older folks on facebook who aren't don't have the literacy around ai good winked by this stuff totally [21:48] upsetting to see it's really upsetting to see like i know luckily my mom doesn't sending me any of them but i know she's on facebook all the time and i know she's getting some of this and i know she's believing some of it and here we are yeah anyway this is an example of one of the videos that you would see on facebook which is it's a video of an ai generated video of lebron um [22:14] being pregnant and giving birth and the dad is Steph Curry. And there is like some, there's some basketball joke in it that I don't understand because I don't watch basketball. Like there's some significance to like why Steph Curry. And then there's another person who appears at the [22:32] a familiar story that I don't but it's some in joke and um it goes [22:40] crazy hyper viral and there's a series of them it's not just this one like there's many as you come out it's infinite you know yeah the cost of creation is is nothing basically so you can just make as many of these as you want and they can just keep going viral and anyway uh lebron's team sent a cease and desist to the something called interlink ai which was [23:04] is the tool that people were using to, [23:07] create these videos. And there was also a discord where people were like,

[23:12] in this discord and the company was like basically giving tutorials of like how to make these videos and okay this is what i read too yeah then yeah that the like because i think a few of things that are really interesting about the story one is that it's one of the first [23:30] uh, [23:31] celebrity generated AI content that's not pornographic, that's having like litigation around it. And [23:40] um and [23:42] the like, [23:43] part of what made it... [23:46] I guess, easier from what I was reading to get these accounts taken down. So there were like three [23:51] quite large Instagram accounts that were pumping out this content specifically around NBA players that were all being run by the same entity, I guess. And all of those were shut down. And part of what made it possible to shut those three down and like triangulate them was this discord surfer and like drawing it back to there's this sort of like, [24:12] heartbeat of where these things are being created and what people are talking about and how they're learning how to make these videos look so good and so that's that's that [24:25] Okay. [24:26] I think our guest, one of our guests is here. We have a few minutes. [24:30] Should we hop right into it? [24:32] Let's do it. Okay. Hi. Hello. Hi. How's it going? It's going well. [24:40] Um... [24:42] Okay. We have like three minutes to talk about Clueli. So I think we dive right on in. I'm sorry. I think I was on the wrong link. Oh, no worries. No worries. It's all good. Okay. So Raya, you work for the San Francisco Standard. You are the tech culture reporter. So excited to meet you and to have you on. You wrote this piece on Clueli where you went inside the belly of the beast and you met the guys and you're in the office

[25:12] It was very, very [25:13] enjoyable read. I loved the story a lot. Before we jump into your reporting, tell us a little bit about [25:22] your piece and what clearly is for folks who [25:25] aren't familiar? Yeah, sure. Kloolee is, some would say, the most controversial startup in San Francisco right now. It's helmed by 21-year-old Roy Lee, who is somewhat of a sensation. He got-- [25:41] suspended from Columbia University for [25:44] cheating on his big tech interviews and then wanting to live stream his disciplinary hearings. And now he's out here in San Francisco with a startup to essentially take his cheating mainstream. The motto of the startup is cheat on everything. And it's essentially like an AI browser that will overlay anything on your laptop and you can be prompted by it in real time. I tried it. It's a little glitchy, but [26:13] I mean, people are using it to cheat on big tech interviews specifically, which was the original conception of. Oh, interesting. OK, yeah. [26:21] I loved your, in the piece, you talk about how, yeah, you tried it with your editor and like faked a job interview and you're basically like, it didn't, it didn't work. I didn't get the job. You can call me a job, but I don't like to talk to other people. Okay. One of the, you have a lot of really incredible details in the piece. One of them was about the 700 clippers that they pay, content clippers. And essentially like,

[26:48] I-- [26:49] clearly is like one part [26:52] tech company [26:53] sure they have this product and this browser product that they're using or that they're selling. And it seems like they're generating revenue and it's working and they're getting investment from A, 16, Z and, and like, it's definitely a tech company, but it's also very much a media company as well. Um, can you speak to your sort of, [27:08] experience of that and how how they sort of talked about it. [27:12] Yeah, I mean, this was kind of the central question I was trying to answer with my reporting. So I show up to this house and as soon as I step in, it feels very much like a Los Angeles content creator kind of mansion and not like a hack or house. Like a TikTok house. [27:28] Yeah, exactly. And I'm used to going into tons of HACO houses for my reporting, and it doesn't feel that way at all. [27:36] And I asked Roy Lee, I was like, do you see yourself more as an influencer or as a tech visionary and someone with technical chops to execute it? And he gave me this anecdote that's in the story about how he doesn't see himself as, in the ancient sense, a storyteller, but someone who would go out and hunt the meat and come back and bring it back to his tribe. And he's out there hunting meat and actually building the technology. [28:06] he very much sees himself as [28:08] you know, the next Steve Jobs or the next Elon Musk. But I think [28:13] you know, my observation of the startup was that the tech is not really there yet. And they're very they're going all in on distribution and they actually employ way more people on the social media side than on the technical side.

[28:27] Wow. Interesting. It'll be cool to see what happens. [28:30] Because I do think like so many teams in Silicon Valley, that's a very different approach. Like, you know, so many teams, early teams you talk to, it's 85% engineers and there's no one on the marketing or the brand or content creation side. And so, yeah, we'll be, we'll be watching from a second line. We're talking about them. So yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. In some ways. You know, I think the strategy is going to become more prevalent. Like I'm just talking to most startups and they're like, oh yeah, we have to film our launch video and we're doing a super high production video to announce ourselves to [29:00] And so I think like maybe not in the most extreme sense that Cluelay is doing with like 700 clipboards and influencers always showing up at their house. But I think a lot of companies in their earliest stages are starting to think about distribution and Cluelay is the most exaggerated manifestation of that. [29:18] Wow. So crazy. Thank you so much for coming on. We'll have to have you on again to talk about all the things that you write about. And we love your work. And so we're so, so happy to have you for a little bit. Thank you. Big fan of the podcast. Excited. Oh, thanks so much. Bye. Okay. Bye. Talk to you later. [29:36] Okay. [29:38] We've got our next guest here. Next guest. Ty. How's it going? It's going well. Can you guys hear me? Yeah. You sound good. Awesome. Good to see you. Good to see you. How's it going? Big week. I'm over caffeinated and overwhelmed. That combo is rough. And I'm staying, well, I stay here every other week, but in the Tenderloin, like which is close to our office.

[30:08] like gunshots and trash can bombs. So it's not restful, but here we are. Edgy keeps you alive. Keeps you on your toes. So happy to have you. Thank you for coming on. Okay. I feel like we can give... [30:24] For those who have been living under a rock, I feel like my entire timeline has been you for... [30:29] since yesterday. So you're back at Outdoor Voices. [30:32] There's so much to be said about it, but from what I'm seeing, the... [30:37] Sentiment is very positive and everybody is losing their mind. Um, I think any woman who wore outdoor voices, um, [30:45] 10 years ago is like, we're so back. We're back, baby. And so just like before we get into it, how are you feeling? Like, what's the what's the feeling for you? [30:56] It's been I mean, it's just spandex. So like, I got to remember that. And some cotton poplin and stuff now, too, you know, but it is pretty awesome. And just like wild to see how much people care in the most like amazing and grateful type way. [31:18] Like it's been five years since I even like thought about OB and I have loved so much like stepping back into it. And quite honestly, just like in terms of everything I'm doing, it's been a cherry on top as like a creative outlet. [31:32] So I'm like wildly excited with how much people are into kind of this comeback story and OB living on.

[31:40] Yeah. Go ahead. I have so many questions, but you're okay. So you're doing the, um, [31:46] You're doing the like Jack Dorsey where you have Twitter, you have Square, you have all your things. You have TYB, Outdoor Voices. No, literally, I was like, this is my Elon Musk. [31:59] So how, like, what's the, do the two meet? How are we bridging? Okay, tell us a little bit about that vision. Welcome to my world. This, yeah, we've got a lot going on. It's pretty obnoxious, actually, but. [32:14] I'll just kind of give the walk up in like sequential order, but for those not familiar, I started outdoor voices. [32:19] At 23, [32:22] really with this goal to create an activewear brand that [32:26] really approached activity and athletics differently so freed fitness from performance and we had this motto doing things um which is alive and well today as of yesterday but that really like [32:38] created an emotional connection for people. So they found purpose in this doing things mission. We had these blue hats that said doing things that you could only get by showing up to an activity and participating in the mission. So you'd see people on the West Side Highway, like in a doing things hat and high five and be like, we're part of the community. Anyway, I ran Outdoor Voices for eight years, grew it to 100 million and then left with, you know, there were like clashes of the ego at the board level. And as a young CEO, 90 percent of that experience was amazing. [33:08] Yeah. [33:09] That said, it was like a masterclass in brand and business building. As a direct reaction to that experience, I saw the opportunity to create TYB, which stands for Try Your Best.

[33:21] It's a community rewards tool. And it simply allows brands to directly engage with and incentivize their loyal customers and super fans and grow that loyalty over time. And that was a tool that I felt was missing kind of in the brand building space or consumer product space, particularly in the first 10 years of direct to consumer, the direct to consumer model where like everyone was raising a ton of money, spending that money to acquire customers through Instagram and Facebook. Expensive customers that didn't stick with you. Like that wasn't a model that ultimately played out that well. [33:51] for many. [33:53] And so OV to TYB and then as like a side hustle or just like for the fun of it, because I drank a lot of Red Bull. [33:59] I created Joggy, an organic energy brand, really with the intent to be kind of the baby sister to Red Bull with obviously better for you ingredients. And so to me, Joggy is similar to OV with this mission to maximize happiness through movement. And [34:16] If you're wearing your Outro Voices doing things, you have a joggy can in hand. And then TYB is essentially the home and kind of like platform for these super fans to interact with these various brands. So to me, it's world building and I see them all quite synergistically. [34:31] One of our investors yesterday posted like, "OV is back. I've got my exercise dress on. I'm drinking Joggy and I'm earning OV coins on TYV." And that's like the perfect recipe for playing in this world. That's so great. I love it. And I totally see it. And I love Joggy. It's a great product. And every time I've had it, I'm like ready to go, go do things. And I think it was last year.

[34:55] um at fest i had my first joggy and like we went maybe two years ago and i went on a run and i was like oh my gosh i feel invincible i'm like this i don't do energy drinks and i was like wow no wonder people are hooked on this stuff this is amazing um okay the flavors too so it tastes good now same feel better flavor great great great um okay so i want to talk a little bit about tyb for people who um haven't been on the platform [35:22] Essentially, as you're talking about, it's a community rewards platform. You have incredible brands on there like Glossier and Set Active and a bunch of other brands that people know and love. And my experience of it is essentially you get rewarded with [35:38] coins that live in a wallet that all lives on TYB for [35:42] community engagement like challenges that you do with the brands that you love and so and then in reward those coins get you rewards depending on what the brand is so i as i was reading about yesterday what i saw was with the new um line of ov like it will be early drops events things like that [36:02] in relationship to that brand. - Yeah, in terms of OV on TYB? - Yes. - Like what the perks are. Yeah, I mean, quite simply, the reason to join is you get to shop this first collection first. So you become a member today, [36:15] and on like one day ahead of the public, you get early access to shop, which is, you know, I think what most people want right now. Tomorrow, [36:24] We dropped this.

[36:26] Diamante Doing Things Hoodie. Nice. In TYB Shop on the community. So it's essentially the first piece of new OV that you can get your paws on will be within the OV community on TYB Shop. And then [36:40] Really what I found in the past and with OB kind of going live today, there's already a ton of engagement around this is like people are, [36:47] who are obsessed with this type of product and the brand itself, like they want to have a voice in kind of the evolution of the product. So really at the, at the highest level, it's, [36:55] an opportunity to co-create. And so for instance, like people are right now telling us like, this is, this is what the product I want, like tell Ty, tell Jess, our designer, like I've been wanting the doing things short back. So like, [37:07] Having that direct line is really helpful for [37:10] like our development team. And then they're getting rewarded. And so to your point, like for every action I'm engaging with, I'm earning coins, which level up my status within the community. So I start at level one, I go to level two, I go to level three. And at each level, you unlock kind of different engagement, [37:26] higher reward opportunities and things like access to a chat with me or access to an event or access to exclusive merch. And so the whole idea is. [37:35] Like one, we expand out of this like very boring loyalty world where you just get points for purchase. Yeah. And now get to play this game with brands where my engagement matters and I [37:46] actually have kind of status and proof of fan and like a social element here where it becomes kind of my bragging right and we do see a lot of people [37:54] start to share this out to social, like within the Rare Beauty community, which is Selena Gomez's brand. When you reach level three, which is Rare BFF, like we see that all over social. So it's very much this like proof of fan, you know, from a from a crypto world, like the consumer owned identity.

[38:12] just simply from a status perspective is a signal that people care about. [38:16] So we sit across the crypto industry, have a vantage point to a lot of different projects. No one is onboarding, no one is doing BD like you're doing BD. Like the caliber and quality of brands that you're getting on your platform, it's remarkable. And no one else is doing it. And so I'm just wondering, like, why are they saying yes to you? [38:40] I think 100%. Every brand will have an owned fan channel over the next 18 months. So like [38:49] you know, the smart brands today, like recognize that through Instagram and Facebook, they actually don't have the level of data and insights and kind of connection that we should in this day and age. Yeah. So like, that's simply why people are joining. There are various kind of use cases you can use the tool for. So like, [39:05] Some, again, want to like run product development type opportunities or like ambassador programs or influencer. Really, you're able to like stand up this channel and then like bring. [39:16] and kind of like segment based on roles or like utility of different groups. And so all of this lives within one world. Most importantly is we make it all measurable. [39:26] and so we work mostly with shopify brands and and why that matters is on the back end you can start to see like [39:33] when I engage my community members in this way, what happens to frequency of purchase? What happens to value over time and then compare that to members and member behavior that are not on platform? So at the end of the day, why people are buying

[39:46] TYB or signing up is because TYB and your community becomes a growth channel. [39:50] When you engage them in this game, you're increasing frequency of purchase and ultimately making them more valuable over time. [39:56] And that's something that you learned directly from your original experience at Ovi, where you knew that this sort of like community driver was a thing that was making the brand so pervasive and had such a stickiness, but you didn't really have as much of the data available. [40:11] that you wanted to prove that and I feel like TYB is what came out of that for you. [40:16] Yeah, as brand builders, as community builders, you guys will know this, but like there's. [40:21] many flavors of action from your followers that matter. So like UGC that then we can use across paid and owned channels, reviews, giving feedback, showing up to events, hosting events, etc. All of that was the type of engagement that we like worked with our original community on, but we didn't have a tool to orchestrate that engagement at scale. And then most importantly, there was no way to measure like any kind of ad channel for instance, or growth channel. Like [40:51] way, ultimately what's the return? And so that was like the pain point I felt hardcore when I [40:57] you know, was early in Insovy and what we're solving for and seeing impact with the tool today. Do you ever, do you feel any resistance from any of these brands about like creating a new space? Like is, do you get any asks to like bring your white label, what you built into one of their spaces or like, how's that? Yeah. How are those conversations? Yeah.

[41:18] Early innings, like the number one kind of resistance was we want this on our own channels. Like we want this on our site. What we've seen and as we've had more brands essentially get comfortable with app is like [41:32] what's better for the user, which is one portal into rewards and relationships from my favorite brands is ultimately better for the brands because this becomes their most engaged channel. So we're seeing upwards of 40% [41:43] monthly active users, closer to 60 actually more recently, like when I'm a fan of Glossier and Crocs and Outdoor Voices and I can just like engage here on a daily basis, like that makes so much more sense than like me going to the brands. [41:58] Shopify site. You know what I mean? So I call it community commerce. I guess another way of saying it is social selling, but like [42:05] Those are the two worlds we're colliding kind of within the TYB app and the multi-brand, multi-fan aspect makes it a place that has really high engagement. [42:14] Wow. Okay. Last question and then we'll let you go. But, uh, something that I saw a lot in the news of this yesterday was, uh, [42:22] TYB has been an active wear brand for, I mean, TYB, OV has been an active wear brand for most of its life and that you guys are sort of like expanding the world into more of a full lifestyle brand. Can you talk a little bit about that? I'm personally very excited to hear that. [42:37] Yeah, it's so fun. My right eye is twitching. It has been for a week. I need to take a chill bill. The North Star for OB has always been around building the number one recreation brand. I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, so that's just in me. All the...

[42:53] all the weird kind of gear type product like Hoka or like Keen, [42:58] Fibram, five fingers like that's that's my world. I get energized by that. And so we're [43:05] I'd say really starting to expand out of just like stretchy tops and bottoms into like full blown outfitting. And of course, we'll still have those compression outfits, and like the exercise dresses. But [43:16] For instance, we're infusing some more kind of like natural material type pieces like. [43:22] cotton cashmere cropped cardigans with little ob signature that you wear over your pilates pants so it's just like [43:28] a full-on lifestyle brand that we're entering into and and i think it just from a style from a dimension standpoint like i'm excited for the activewear space to get beyond like like matching top and bottom yeah i want the out i want outdoor voices to get the bass pro shops treatment like the full like cathedral with the camping gear and the fishing gear and the biking yes that's like the sexiest shop ever i thank you so much for your time so great to see you [43:58] Talk soon. Bye. Talk to you later. [44:01] Okay, so fun. Okay, bringing up Adam here. How's it going? How you guys doing? Good. Good to see you. Good to see you guys. Thanks for coming on. Of course. We're really switching gears here from like tops and like physical things to... [44:18] your internet stuff. So thank you for being here and excited to talk about your stuff. So would it be fair to say that you are the founder of Tokenworks? Yes. Okay. It's a team of now two

[44:34] I brought up a designer to help me. Cool. And you guys are like art studio... [44:41] dudes, people who are... I've been using the term like art studio for financialized ideas. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just making shit up. But it's like, I don't know. I've been launching one token slash product a month and they're all financialized and they're all... [45:01] games, but I put a lot of [45:03] love into them. And so I kind of view them as art as well. And yeah, [45:07] kind of have a little cult community following me as well. Do you feel any tension in the financialization and the art intersection there? Yeah. Is that what you like? It sucks. Like, honestly, it's, I mean, that's like the whole thing. Like, no one would, people want to make money. And so it's like... [45:22] There's just kind of this network of people that want to make money and kind of using my tokens as like a vessel and like a, [45:29] everyone knows that isn't going to last forever. And so it's like, let's all play the game and who knows what will happen kind of thing. I respect that. I respect that as an approach. OK, I want to talk about [45:40] a few of your projects, but starting with what you guys are launching today, which is [45:45] the ticker CTO. Yes. And I, I'm going to tell you what my understanding of it is. And then I'm going to tell you what I don't understand. Does that work? Yep. Awesome. Okay. So my understanding of it is it's like one ticker to rule them all. And the idea is that anyone can become the CTO of this project. And the more supply that you hold, the more power you have in the direction of where

[46:15] about that but that's we're just going to keep moving through this um so and then basically you guys did two pre-sales this week one was a soul-bounded nft the second was um donations to uh roman storm's defense fund which for people who don't know was one of the co-founders of tornado cash and uh the defense fund is very much focused on um protecting open source developers [46:45] $85,000 for that over 800 wallets average donation was between $95 and 120, which is amazing. And so that's what I understand. What I do not understand is what the, [46:57] What? [46:58] is [46:59] the [47:00] project that you get to control if you have supply? Yes. So the project is the CTO token. And basically it's a token like we're all used to, but [47:11] It's going to start as ticker CTO name CTO community takeover. [47:15] But if you have tokens, the more you have, you can roll a dice. [47:20] And yet some of your tokens get burned when you do that. But it rolls a dice, you submit a name, a ticker, an image. And if your role is successful, it becomes your token. [47:28] You are the creator and you are getting creator fees moving forward. Someone else can roll it right after, but it's kind of just this game of like, [47:35] can you steer the ship better than the person before you? And if you're willing to like push it hard, you're going to get fees from it as well. - And the roll of the dice is just to mark a moment in time to see who has the most tokens.

[47:46] No, anyone can roll the dice. If I have 10,000 tokens, I can roll, but it'll be .005% chance. If I have 1% of the supply, which is the cap, [47:57] It's a 50/50. I see. And you only lose 1% of that stake. So it's not like, [48:03] all your tokens get locked or burned or anything. So the risk is pretty low. [48:07] Okay, so let's say I roll the dice. I... [48:11] When? [48:12] And I can then change the ticker to... [48:16] dumb bitch hour yep and then someone and then it's like how well that token does is how much i'm compensated essentially or what the rewards i get for that [48:28] And it's the same token? Yeah. So same contract, same holders. It just updates. Think of it like... [48:34] I mean, I know Zora is the hot topic now. [48:37] Think of it like a community Zora profile that... [48:41] the creator of the creator wallet switches based on who is the creator but okay so like i go in my [48:48] my wallet and the token, which it would update his name in the wallet. [48:54] It should. If it doesn't, it's kind of like we have our website where it's like the source of truth. I see. But I'm also hoping it does. But I know like most tokens don't change. So like there's a chance it just like doesn't do that. Okay, cool, cool. It's like activists investing on chain. [49:10] And so we'll see what happens, but I'm super excited. That's awesome. Okay. And it launches today? The actual token? Yes. Okay. The first pre-sale is this current hour. I've been fixing it.

[49:21] I had another spaces before this and was live fixing it. It's been horrible. Oh, no. Well, thanks for being here. It's the crunch time. It's crunch time. Yeah. Okay. So, presale is happening now. And then... [49:34] people can get in on it. Yeah, it'll be, it launches for everyone, probably like 2 p.m. ESD, maybe 2.15, depending on, [49:42] how things go um [49:45] But yeah, it's cool. We're going to let it rip, see what happens. I've been tweaking it forever. And I've had this idea for a couple months, but it's like, you don't really know what happens until you launch it. You got to push the bird out of it. There's so much out of my control with like tokens in general. Like someone could snipe it and dump and the project dies. I wasted a month. So yeah. Do you have any fear? [50:05] Uh... [50:05] Just okay. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Okay, I want to talk about a few of your other projects while we have you here. So we I'm just gonna so there's Cabal coin. This is my understanding of Cabal coin. [50:22] you can buy into it and then [50:24] in order to sell you have to like convince other people who hold the token to give you permission in order to sell nope you have to convince an ai cabal and it okay how convincing your plea is the market conditions etc [50:37] But what's nice though is like, [50:40] they're all ephemeral and so that product's dead. Like you can still buy and sell the token, but it's dead. It's like, yeah. [50:46] Okay, and is that... [50:49] Is this by design? It's by design. Okay. Yeah. I made it so like if no one tries to sell within 24 hours, the AI just turns off and you don't, you can sell freely.

[50:58] Okay. So yeah. [51:00] Cool. Okay. Then Spawn, I feel like I understand, but let's talk about it. And then I do want to get to FundingWorks because I have very little understanding. So Spawn stands for Sustainable Pyramid of Assets Where No One Loses Money. And I think I talked to you about this one before it had launched, but the idea is that it's a token launchpad, but what happens is every time you buy a token, you launch your own token. Yes. Okay. So like every time you buy a token, it was a commentary on... [51:29] Um, [51:30] base and clanker and zora and just like all these infinite tokens and they're all um and just showing how like you can't accrue value to all of these things it's hard um so you would buy it and if you bought it your buy or sell would launch a new token [51:44] with a random name, [51:46] And then you were the creator of that. And then the creator fees like trickled up and like, [51:50] I had this beautiful website where it was all like nodes. Yeah. And yeah, so that was pretty much that. Very cool. And is that also [51:58] Dead. That's ephemeral. You can, I mean, what's nice is like, you can buy all of these whenever you want. Um, but like I consider them dead and no one buys them and it's like, [52:06] It's nice that I'm not like, [52:09] Three months later, like, hey, why aren't you working on Spawn? I'm like, no, it's killed. Once it's over, we pull the plug. I think that's beautiful. It's nice, like spiritually, emotionally, it's probably really nice to let go of these things every month. [52:24] in the world in a world where everything lives forever um okay the last one funding works um what i am what i know about this project is that it's meant to support creators i don't and i don't

[52:36] Tell us about it. Easy. So this is actually my only like long-term project. I have a couple other long-term projects, but this is like my big one. Okay. It's launched on ETH Mainnet. And basically it's like a Kickstarter slash GoFundMe for creators. [52:50] And it's just like a more long-term thinking of how do we support creators and actually have the money go to them. [52:56] but also have more accountability. So they actually have to like provide. [53:00] So basically you would... [53:03] I was the first creator to launch on it. [53:06] You can set NFTs, how many you want to buy or how many you want to sell and at what price. So I did 250 at one ETH. [53:11] It's sold out. People bought them. These NFTs are soul bound. So no one can speculate on the secondary market. But at any point, I don't get the money. I only get 10%. Then the rest of the money trickles from supporters to me over the course of a year. And at any point... [53:26] Like today, everyone's like, CTO sucks. I want my money back. They can burn their NFT and get back whatever money is left in their NFT. [53:33] So right now I'd probably be like 0.7. Um, [53:36] So it makes this great dynamic where like, I feel like I'm under the gun. [53:40] And I'm not performing. And so I'm incentivized to work harder. But also, like, I have money trickling to me every day so I can make ideas. [53:47] Okay. So that 10% is trickling on a daily basis or what's the... Every second. Okay. Okay. [53:55] So, like, I get 10% instantly when it ended. Okay. Which was, like, 25 ETH. And then... [54:00] the other 225 every second moved from [54:05] supporter to me. So if a month has passed, I get another 10% kind of thing. Okay. Wow. That's interesting. That's really interesting. I feel like that's a really novel, uh,

[54:14] approach to creator patronage that we haven't seen. - Yeah, and I'm trying to show like, [54:20] Zora creator fees are one way. I don't love it. But [54:25] I like getting all of the money from my supporter and not having it go to the mercenary that bought before me. And like, [54:31] Yeah. [54:33] So it's kind of nice that like, I mean, [54:36] I got a bunch of ETH initially. I still have a bunch of ETH in the wallet to keep working. I hired someone. [54:41] Um, [54:42] But also when someone burns because I'm not doing well enough or ETH goes up, [54:46] I'm like, fuck, I just lost .8 ETH. Like, what do I do? I feel like I need to keep working. And it's not like, [54:52] I just raised $5 million and can sit on my ass. Does it hurt your feelings? [54:57] Yeah. No one's like that mad. Cause they're like, ETH went up too. It's like, I got all of my money back in USD. And so it's kind of like, yeah. I'm kind of like, man, that sucks. But also like sometimes people are just like, I want my money back. I want to throw it at meme coin. And I'm like, [55:11] Godspeed. Totally. Good to you. Okay. Do, and can any creator, [55:17] Do... [55:19] Like can any creator launch a project with funding works or is it gated some way? It's still gated. Um, I'm doing mine. I did another, my friend young weekend did a launch on it. Um, [55:28] I'm, [55:29] I made it so anyone could launch on it. It's just still gated. I just kind of like [55:34] There's a lot of shit going on right now. No worries. I want to. If people are interested, they can hit me up and I can... [55:41] we can talk. So, yeah. Okay, cool. Um, I do want to hear what your gripe is with creator fees on Zora, just while we have, I, I,

[55:50] That's a whole other hour. It's a whole other hour method. [55:54] I just think, I don't know, it's so speculative, and it's like, [55:58] The team seems great. I liked it better. My first blockchain based product was [56:04] at fest last year it was minting my tweets on zora [56:08] Okay. As NFTs, because, um, [56:13] Why not stop deleting them? [56:14] I don't know if I'm lagging out. Oh, you lag for a second. [56:17] But it was a Zora product where they were NFTs and it would admit my NFTs on the blockchain, so I couldn't delete them. And it's just like, I don't know, I just don't think it's... [56:26] it's new, but I don't think it's the Ford's creators as much as they really say. And I think the money really [56:31] goes to these snipers and [56:33] they're pushing like if you're the first buy, but like you will never be the first buy. It will be like [56:38] people that do this 24/7 that want to make money. So that's yeah. [56:43] That's just my only gripe. Maybe if they fix that. I also, I hope Coinbase is willing to support their creators if they ever get sued. [56:52] for launching a speculative shitcoin. I'm prepared for it. But like, [56:56] when [56:57] You know, people don't know if you're going to onboard someone and then their supporters get burned, like people get mad. People get really angry when they lose their money. And I've known this. I've launched... [57:07] 10 tokens as ethically as I feel like I can, but still people are like, I lost money. Um, [57:13] you're doxxed, like you're done. And so it's like, [57:16] I just don't think... [57:18] the most creators, it's not worth the $10 you're going to get. So you brought in the S word sued. I haven't thought about that since Trump was elected. Now I'm like, oh yeah, that happens. We're in a better environment, but it's like, totally. If you're a supporter and you get burned, like, I mean, anyone can sue anyone for anything. So it's like,

[57:38] I don't know, like I said, we're seeing the Roman storm thing right now. Yeah. [57:42] And it's like, these things happen. Like they thought about pulling in Dragonfly for being investors. It's like. I saw that. Yeah. It's crazy. [57:50] I just think when you foster this environment, I just see a world where they're like, well, that was an experiment. See you guys. We're working on our next thing. And it's just kind of like, [58:00] the creators are the ones that get burned and you're burning, you're trading in like [58:05] your fan trust for like, [58:07] maybe $100, maybe $1,000, but it's like not... [58:11] um, [58:13] I don't think it's skills. I want to see a you and we talked about the Solana crash out earlier in this episode. I want to see you and a Jesse Pollack go toe to toe. Oh, we do. Great. Great. I'll look it up. He's great. But at least we'll fight for it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So people should, if they want to get in on CTO, what's the best way for them to make that happen? [58:34] I also have to go right after this question, but at 2:15 PM EST, [58:39] um cto.tax perfect okay adam thanks so much awesome thank you later bye um okay that was boys club live there it is we did it uh we're back we'll see you next week um most likely wednesday but we'll let you know if it's another day thanks for tuning in bye bye [59:01] Okay, that's our show this week. Join us live on Twitter every Wednesday at noon. Or here, I guess.